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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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Scraping a wing? Do you mean tail? I was thinking a tail skid of some sort might be a good idea when I get around to building the fuselage, to not only protect the fuselage but also the rudder.
| cookwithgas wrote: | Martin:
Nope, that was real. It was the first time the guy had flown a 601XL and although I warned him about the sensitive pitch he didn't realize how sensitive it was. I wish I would have had a video camera in hand because I was standing by the runway, but it scared me so bad I probably would have dropped the camera. He managed to get up with out scraping a wing but it was close!
I put that takeoff in the video on purpose so Ron (the pilot) could see it. We got a good laugh afterwards but it was pretty scary at the time. His second takeoff was perfect as well as both landings.
Thanks for the email.
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
www.cooknwithgas.com
601XL/Corvair #17 |
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cookwithgas
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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Andy:
I meant wing! I wish I could have video'd from the outside. It was a wild ride according to Ron and from what I could see. Up, down, side, to side, etc.
Speaking of tail skid - I actually made a stronger tie-down/ tail skid for my airplane here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_9_04_TailSkid.JPG
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_11_04_TailSkid.JPG
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_10_04_TailSkid.JPG
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_14_04_TailSkid.JPG
My little mill was kind of new back then and I was looking for things to make with it. It is probably overkill.
Scott.
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BobTezyk
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midlothian, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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Scott,
What is the weight difference between the the old and the new tail skid? Did it affect the CG substantially?
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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I see that Scot's main gear are mounted with the strait edge to the
rear. Mine are the same, the earlier plans showed them that way.
With a relatively heavy engine like my Subaru, the lightly loaded CG is
quite far ahead of the main gear. I have found that this causes a
pronounced tendency for the plane to pitch up just after takeoff and
rapidly drop the nose on touchdown. This is because you must apply back
pressure on the stick to rotate for take off. The moment applied by the
tail during rotation acts around the point where the main gear contact
the ground but as soon as you lift off, that moment instantly begins to
act around CG, which is several inches farther from the tail. This
sudden increase in leverage tends to cause pitch up. As long as you are
expecting it and release some back pressure on liftoff, it is not a
problem. The reverse occurs on landing, the sudden decrease in leverage
results in a pitch down tendency that needs to be countered with
increased back pressure.
The newer plans have the main gear reversed to put the strait side
forward. This moves the main gear a few inches forward to reduce the
separation between the main gear and the CG. The original position of
the gear would probably work fine for a light engine like the Rotax or
Jabiru but the newer location works better for the heavier Continental,
Corvair or Subaru. I have thought about switching my main gear around to
correct this issue, but I've gotten used to it and don't consider it to
be a big enough problem to be a high priority modification.
ashontz wrote:
| Quote: |
Cool, I like it.
One thing, it appears as though on landing the nose comes down pretty quick. I think other people have noted this one their XLs as well. Is it fairly difficult to hold the nose up once the mains hit?
cookwithgas wrote:
> Martin:
>
> Nope, that was real. It was the first time the guy had flown a 601XL and although I warned him about the sensitive pitch he didn't realize how sensitive it was. I wish I would have had a video camera in hand because I was standing by the runway, but it scared me so bad I probably would have dropped the camera. He managed to get up with out scraping a wing but it was close!
>
> I put that takeoff in the video on purpose so Ron (the pilot) could see it. We got a good laugh afterwards but it was pretty scary at the time. His second takeoff was perfect as well as both landings.
>
> Thanks for the email.
|
--
Bryan Martin
Zenith 601XL N61BM
Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive
Do Not Archive
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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cookwithgas
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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Here's another compilation of videos (with some new music) that shows a different take-off and landing. The outside shots are not the same day but added for your viewing pleasure. The jumping jacks are mine.
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Videos/Second_Flight_Remix.mpg
Enjoy,
Scott Laughlin
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challgren(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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On Jan 16, 2008, at 11:27 AM, cookwithgas wrote:
| Quote: |
Speaking of tail skid - I actually made a stronger tie-down/ tail
skid for my airplane here:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_9_04_TailSkid.JPG
My little mill was kind of new back then and I was looking for
things to make with it. It is probably overkill.
Scott."
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Scott:
I had to add a 5 # lead weight to my tail skid area for CG purposes on
my HDS. It would have been a tail skid when the tie down was ground
off. I like your idea and you have given me a reason for buying
another tool. Way to go!
Stan
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Tim Juhl
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Rudder Cam N5SL Second Flight! |
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For Bryan Martin,
That is certainly the best explanation I've heard for the takeoff and landing behavior of an XL in relation to the gear position and engine weight. I wish I had been able to put it so succinctly.
Tim
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_________________
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CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring! |
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