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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Good morning all,

         I am having a heck of a time getting the Pennzoil 2-stroke 

air cooled oil. The best price I've been able to get was $40/case of 

24 pints + $10 shipping at oil-store.com. I was also told by a 

Pennzoil distributor that the 16oz. has been discontinued and that 

sooner or later I'll have to use 8oz. bottles, with the attendant 

higher price and waste. Therefore, would anyone care to recommend a 

non-Pennzoil oil for the 582?



Thank you,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy, I recommend AMSOIL. They have a premix and an injector oil I have used it in everything from a Kohler 30 HP engine on an ultralite & various 2 stroke race motorcycles to a 1/6 HP weed whip at the 100 to 1 Ratio for over 20 years. It is the only 2 stroke oil I will use except for break-in of a brand new engine. I use what ever the mfg. recommends for break-in for obvious reasons.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:59:23 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com; rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 From: bnn(at)nethere.com

 Subject: 2-stroke Oil

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

 

 Good morning all,

 I am having a heck of a time getting the Pennzoil 2-stroke 

 air cooled oil. The best price I've been able to get was $40/case of 

 24 pints + $10 shipping at oil-store.com. I was also told by a 

 Pennzoil distributor that the 16oz. has been discontinued and that 

 sooner or later I'll have to use 8oz. bottles, with the attendant 

 higher price and waste. Therefore, would anyone care to recommend a 

 non-Pennzoil oil for the 582?

 

 Thank you,

 

 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to ========================> 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: 2-stroke Oil

Simple solution, Use Bombardier XPS mineral oil 

it is API TC rated an sold at all Ski doo and Sea doo dealers.



You can buy it in containers or bring your own and buy bulk. 



My Current 582 has 380 hours on it and never been apart.

Current spark plugs have 14 hours on them and I checked one yesterday.

Look like they got 10 hours on them. 



I use what works and in this case I will continue to do it this way. 

Pennzoil for air cooleds in my opinion is about the same . Just stay away from outboard oil  that is TCw#3 rated and not API TC rated .

Synthetics use only if you use you r plane at least twice a week and live in a dry climate.  If not I be happy to sell you a crank.

_________________
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Last edited by dave on Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

JohnA

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Woodland, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy,



CPS has AV-2.  It is really the cleanest burning stuff that I've run across.  

CPS has it in 5 gallon buckets which is quite economical.



www.800-airwolf.com



John Alexander

Woodland, CA



On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:59:23 -0800, Guy Buchanan wrote

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Good morning all,

          I am having a heck of a time getting the Pennzoil 2-stroke 

 air cooled oil. The best price I've been able to get was $40/case of 

 24 pints + $10 shipping at oil-store.com. I was also told by a 

 Pennzoil distributor that the 16oz. has been discontinued and that 

 sooner or later I'll have to use 8oz. bottles, with the attendant 

 higher price and waste. Therefore, would anyone care to recommend a 

 non-Pennzoil oil for the 582?

 

 Thank you,

 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 


	




--

Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.  - Ben Franklin

_________________
John Alexander
Woodland, CA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy, I always bought mine from Tractor Supply (TSC) in one gallon containers 

and it was very economical compared to buying it in the 16 oz units.   It's 

been quite awhile though, so I don't know if they still carry it like that.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



---

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Dave, My experience over 20 years with AMSOIL has been nothing but positive. You state that you don't like synthetics with your 582. What experience have you had with synthetic oil that prompts your advice? I value your advice. Maybe, I will have to switch to the oil you are recommending. 

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 2-stroke Oil

 From: dave(at)cfisher.com

 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:51:33 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com>

 

 Simple solution, Use Bombardier XPS mineral oil 

 it is API TC rated an sold at all Ski doo and Sea doo dealers.

 

 You can buy it in containers or bring your own and buy bulk. 

 

 My Current 582 has 380 hours on it and never been apart.

 Current spark plugs have 14 hours on them and I checked one yesterday.

 Look like they got 10 hours on them. 

 

 I use what works and in this case I will continue to do it this way. 

 Pennzoil for air cooleds in my opinion is about the same . Just stay away from outboard oil that is TCw# rated and not API TC rated .

 

 

 Synthetics use only if you use you r plane at least twice a week and live in a dry climate. If not I be happy to sell you a crank.

 

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159630#159630> 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Good morning all,

         I am having a heck of a time getting the Pennzoil 2-stroke air 

 cooled oil. The best price I've been able to get was $40/case of 24 

 pints + $10 shipping at oil-store.com. I was also told by a Pennzoil 

 distributor that the 16oz. has been discontinued and that sooner or 

 later I'll have to use 8oz. bottles, with the attendant higher price 

 and waste. Therefore, would anyone care to recommend a non-Pennzoil 

 oil for the 582?



 Thank you,

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 Go To Walmart,,they have Pennzoil 2 stroke oil.I use Rotax 2 stroke 

 oil in my KF2..Steve Shinabery N554KF kf 2

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: 2-stroke Oil

 	  Quote: 	
		  Dave, My experience over 20 years with AMSOIL has been nothing but positive. You state that you don't like synthetics with your 582. What experience have you had with synthetic oil that prompts your advice? I value your advice. Maybe, I will have to switch to the oil you are recommending. 



Pat Reilly 

Mod 3 Rebuild 

Rockford,IL 

	




Pat I have over 35 year with 2 strokes and have used synthetic in some applications   ie   exhaust valv  racing etc.   There is no question that some synthetics do a great job providing lubrication. 



But  they do not provide the corrosion  protection you get with mineral oil.

If you use you engine several time s a week and/or live in the desert or a very dry climate you might do better than others. 



What is the advantage of Amsoil or any synthetic ?  We use mostly Bombardier XPS here for injected engines and rotax pre mix for pre mix. 

just make sure it is API tc rated  and if you insist on synthetics then when not in use you better buy some fogging oil  or someone will be selling you a crank . 



Thousands of Rotax cranks are sold annually , why ? 

Alot of bearing failures stem from corrosion.  Imagine any roller or Ball bearing with a bit of rust on it  not to mention  the races of the bearing  then spin them at 6000 rpm  and  see how long that galled bearing endures the not so smooth ride.   Yes failure imminent.

JohnA

Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Woodland, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

All,



Two major things to be aware of if you change your 2-stroke oil in a 582.



- Use the same oil for both your oil injection (or pre-mix) and for the RV 

shaft fluid.  If you change oils, your oil injection / fuel lines and the RV 

shaft lube system should get a very good flush - or preferably, do a full 

engine teardown.  It is not that expensive and should be done about every 150 

hours anyway.



- Beware of switching from synthetic to non-synthetic oils.  In some cases, 

they are not compatable and mixing the two will result in a gummy sludge.  

This could really bite you if you have oil injection.  The ports in the oil 

pump are small.



If your oil works for you, doesn't rapidly foul the plugs and stick the rings 

and build up overly on the piston dome/cylinder head, stick with it.



John Alexander

Woodland, CA

_________________
John Alexander
Woodland, CA

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

At 02:34 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Guy, I always bought mine from Tractor Supply (TSC) in one gallon 

containers and it was very economical compared to buying it in the 

16 oz units.   It's been quite awhile though, so I don't know if 

they still carry it like that.


	


Thanks Deke. It looks like they don't carry it anymore.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

At 04:05 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Go To Walmart,,they have Pennzoil 2 stroke oil.I use Rotax 2 stroke 

oil in my KF2..Steve Shinabery N554KF kf 2


	


Wow. Wouldn't that be great. I'll check it out. I wonder if I have to 

flush the system to go from the blue air cooled engine oil to the red 

Premium Outboard.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: Re: 2-stroke Oil

 	  Quote: 	
		  I wonder if I have to 

flush the system to go from the blue air cooled engine oil to the red 

Premium Outboard. 

Guy Buchanan 

	




Why would you use outboard oil?  If it meets API TC - sure.

If it TCw3 oil -stay away from it.



Go to a Sea doo or a Ski doo dealer and likely theyr will have XPS in containers or Bulk. 



Others I know are decent along with Pennzoil,  Shell advance and Castrol Super  2 stroke.  Once again make sure they meet the rating of API TC.

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 04:05 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote:

> Go To Walmart,,they have Pennzoil 2 stroke oil.I use Rotax 2 stroke 

> oil in my KF2..Steve Shinabery N554KF kf 2



 Wow. Wouldn't that be great. I'll check it out. I wonder if I have to 

 flush the system to go from the blue air cooled engine oil to the red 

 Premium Outboard.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

I think that they sell the Pennzoil 2 stroke oil in gal gugs all so..But 
	


I buy my rotax 2 stroke oil at ,a rotax snowmobile dealer.why chance a 

good thing.ROTAX engine,ROTAX 2 stroke oil.all so I heard a thing I do 

not know if it is trure.But they told me to stay away from Pennzoil 

because it does not break down in gasoline as the Rotax oil does.that is 

why I never switched to the Pennzoil 2 stroke oil,I was but after I 

heard that.I stayed with the Rotax oil..I thought what Rotax knows about 

there engines they sould know about there oil all so.but that is your 

choice.  Steve Shinabery N554KF  KF2  582 C box

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 04:05 PM 1/21/2008, you wrote:

> Go To Walmart,,they have Pennzoil 2 stroke oil.I use Rotax 2 stroke 

> oil in my KF2..Steve Shinabery N554KF kf 2



 Wow. Wouldn't that be great. I'll check it out. I wonder if I have to 

 flush the system to go from the blue air cooled engine oil to the red 

 Premium Outboard.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

Gary when you switch from 1 oil to another it is best to flush your 
	


system,and then put in all new oil.  Steve Shinabery N554KF  KF2  582

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: Re: 2-stroke Oil

 	  Quote: 	
		  I buy my rotax 2 stroke oil at ,a rotax snowmobile dealer.why chance a 

good thing.ROTAX engine,ROTAX 2 stroke oil.all so I heard a thing I do 

not know if it is trure.But they told me to stay away from Pennzoil 

because it does not break down in gasoline as the Rotax oil does.that is 

why I never switched to the Pennzoil 2 stroke oil,I was but after I 

heard that.I stayed with the Rotax oil..I thought what Rotax knows about 

there engines they sould know about there oil all so.but that is your 

choice. Steve Shinabery 	




Hey Steve,  it certainly is funny how the Rotax book is followed to a "T" for alot of info, cooling temps, coolant, EGTs temps, Mufflers etc but when it comes to oil it seems to go unnoticed? 



You know what I use and you know it works....  250 to 350 2 stroke flying hours a year with no troubles speaks for itself.



I will tell you that some owners decisions on how to run their engine and what oil to use does in fact bring Rotax shops business.    

In all fairness I would rather see a safe and longer running engine than just being the supplier of parts  to replace ones that had their life shortened from improper operations.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

At 02:00 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Why would you use outboard oil?  If it meets API TC - sure.

If it TCw3 oil -stay away from it.


	


Only because of the ultralightnews.com test. They tested these two 

Pennzoils and though they found the air-cooled to be the best, they 

found the red Premium outboard, which is API-TC rated to be almost as 

good. Unfortunately they didn't test the XPS or Amsoil. On your 

suggestion I will be looking around San Diego for the XPS, as I'm 

sure there's a Sea-Doo dealer here somewhere.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

At 02:10 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I think that they sell the Pennzoil 2 stroke oil in gal gugs all 

so..But I buy my rotax 2 stroke oil at ,a rotax snowmobile 

dealer.why chance a good thing.ROTAX engine,ROTAX 2 stroke oil


	


Steve,

         Are you talking about the Bombardier XPS oil? Or is there 

something with a Rotax brand on it?

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Just a thought...  Johnson (the outboard manufacturer not the... J ) and Evinrude are now built by Bombardier.  They should have a supply of XPS mineral oil.  

   

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C85D05.E31E90F0[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

Noel  

   

   

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

nativealaskan1956(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Why are you using that crap anyway. Use Golden Spectro.



 

 On 1/21/08, Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com (bnn(at)nethere.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com (bnn(at)nethere.com) >



Good morning all,

        I am having a heck of a time getting the Pennzoil 2-stroke

air cooled oil. The best price I've been able to get was $40/case of

24 pints + $10 shipping at  oil-store.com. I was also told by a

Pennzoil distributor that the 16oz. has been discontinued and that

sooner or later I'll have to use 8oz. bottles, with the attendant

higher price and waste. Therefore, would anyone care to recommend a  [quote][b]

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: 2-stroke Oil

Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 02:10 AM 1/22/2008, you wrote:

> I think that they sell the Pennzoil 2 stroke oil in gal gugs all 

> so..But I buy my rotax 2 stroke oil at ,a rotax snowmobile dealer.why 

> chance a good thing.ROTAX engine,ROTAX 2 stroke oil



 Steve,

         Are you talking about the Bombardier XPS oil? Or is there 

 something with a Rotax brand on it?

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 Guy,,It is the Bombardier XPS 2 stroke oil.but I will check to make 

 sure this weekend.since I will not get out to the airport untill 

 then.I belive that you will beable to get it from Ski Doo or a Sea Doo 

 dealer. I think I payed $24.00 gal for it. if the Sea Doo Dealer does 

 not have it.he could order it for you..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2  

 with the little but mighty 582

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