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Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky)
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azfirestar

Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky)

I know this one has been beat to death - I would expect nothing less from all of us on this list.  Nevertheless, I still have enjoyed reading it and it made me think a lot about good piloting skills.  I agree with Mike and Dana as far as the theory goes, but I also believe that Tom and John's experience shows that for moderate bank angles the additional g-load is near negligible.  One thing I've noticed, by the way, is that many of us tend to over estimate our bank angle.  When I've done true 30-degree banks on the gyro it sure felt a lot steeper than that.

 

 I suspect you may get the highest g-load when you pull-out of your descent on the turn to final, also when you are least likely to have your eyes on the g-meter - but a very smooth technique could minimize that.  I think that maintaining constant airspeed is a very important discipline to develop.  I know I will be practicing this technique next time I can get flying.

 

 Dan G.

 503 F2

 Tucson

 The Kuffels wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net> (kuffel(at)cyberport.net)   

   

 Dana,   

   

 << Since you're _accelerating_ downward your descent rate will continue to increase, as will your airspeed. >>   

   

 Taint so on the second part.  Your decent rate will increase slightly until the vertical component of your drag cancels the loss of vertical lift (if you turn long enough).  But your airspeed is your velocity forward, almost orthogonal to vertical.  In non-aerobatic flight it is a simple matter to adjust your airspeed and accept the resulting descent rate.   

   

 And I say again, your vertical accelerations are a secondary effect.  Even a 500 feet/min descent is less than 1 percent of your forward velocity at 60 mph.  And a change in descent rate from 250 to 500 ft/min is a change in your vertical velocity of less than 3 mph.  This is well within the ability of any pilot to compensate as he maintains constant *forward* airspeed.   

   

 High-g pullout examples don't apply here because they involve large changes in airspeed, power or vertical speed.   

   

 Go try it for yourself.  In a simulated turn to final, holding constant airspeed results in a 1g maneuver no matter what bank angle (within reason, say 60 degrees).   

   

 Tom Kuffel   

 Whitefish, MT   

 Building Original FireStar   

 [b]

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_________________
Dan G.
503 Firestar II
Tucson AZ

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky)

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  



Guess the only way to convince you is take you for a ride.  



john h

mkIII 	




I want a Ride !!!!   I would love to see  how John flys his Kolb from inside his plane 



This topic has been beat to death, but in this case its a good thing.   I am willing to bet there will be a lot of people practicing engine out turns to final in the coming days.  I know I will be trying it the next chance I get.



So if we all get some more practice, and get better and flying our Kolbs engine out, its all good.



Mike

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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: Dead Stick Approaches ( Holes in the sky)

also when you are least likely to have your eyes on the  g-meter  

 

Dan G.

 

  

 Dan G:

  

 With a recording needle (don't know what the actual name fo  the third needle is) don't have to keep my eye on the g meter.

  

 john h

 mkIII

   [quote][b]

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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