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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias) |
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Hmm- On second thought the fish scale idea below won't work as it will just add to the resistents you would push against. I'm sure there is a way to do it though.
Vern
From: planesmith(at)hotmail.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:16:21 -0700
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass EC_body.hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}
Been thinking a lot about Jason's rudder trim system and have a request for those flying.
Jason said "If I deflect the one springs free arm 30 degrees, will it create enough force to put the airplane in trim. The springs apply about an 8 pound force to the rudder cables (pre-load if you will), assuming they will want to maintain in equilibrium a 30 degree deflection should be more than enough to trim the airplane."
Would someone flying, been willing to measure the force it takes to deflect the rudder under flight loads? The measurement wouldn't need to be exact, just close. Just have a passanger with a fish scale hooked to the bottom of the rudder pedal as you push on the matching pedal may work. I'm sure there are other ways to do this- Hey this is one ingenious bunch! Having this force measurement will aid greatly in the design and initial success of this trim system.
Is someone up to doing this? I know this is asking a lot. One you've got to go flying and two you have to find someone to ride along with you:) But joking aside I think this would speed the development along and I for one would be very appetitive.
Thanks for any help,
Vern Smith (#324 motor mount ready to install)
do not archive
| Quote: | | Quote: | To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias
From: jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:55:17 -0600
I have 'developed' a spring bias rudder trim system for the RV-10. After sharing this idea with Deems he encouraged me to do the same with the rest of the group. So here goes, but before I get into any details let me preface this whole conversation with a few thoughts. This is all in theory, I have absolutely no actual flight testing to back up any of the 'claims', or assumptions. Just good old common sense and a tiny bit of engineering. Our airplane is not in the air yet, I had hoped to get in the air, prove out the system, then share with the world. To prevent anyone else for possibly needlessly cutting into their rudder to add a trim tab, I have decided to bear the scrutiny of an unproven, theoretical system. Please be gentle...
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias) |
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Having just come back from transition training, I would have to say it depends on how fast you are going…….I have no idea how much force it took but it seemed light to me except when I slipped, then I thought I needed two legs to hold the rudder all the way down.
Had a great time at transition training with Mike. I got a great start al learning how to fly an RV-10. Since flying is a life time learning event I look forward to the next 20 years in a kick-ass plane. I got to fly in 410RV so it is the same horsepower as my airplane. I have a couple of bad habits I need to break, but at least I know what to focus on.
Just want to repeat what those in front of me have said. Mike is a great instructor and the transition training is worth every penny. I got 6 hours in hops over two days. Also, stayed in the Scappoose Creek Inn, arrived late (Midnight) and left early (3am) and they accommodated all my needs.
Rene'
801-721-6080
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coop85(at)cableone.net
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias) |
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Vern,
I think if you attached the fish scale to a stick and the rudder pedal so the fish scale was on the far side of the pedal it would work by pushing on the stick until the desired deflection was gained.
Having said that, the easier answer is “not much”. I found it takes very little pressure to work the pedals, but I can’t quantify it. Also, if you need 30 degrees of pedal movement to hold the airplane in trim, I suspect you have something else very wrong going on so that should be plenty. Other than on climbout it’s really more like leaning on a pedal to get the ball centered.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:11 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias)
Hmm- On second thought the fish scale idea below won't work as it will just add to the resistents you would push against. I'm sure there is a way to do it though.
Vern
From: planesmith(at)hotmail.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:16:21 -0700
Been thinking a lot about Jason's rudder trim system and have a request for those flying.
Jason said "If I deflect the one springs free arm 30 degrees, will it create enough force to put the airplane in trim. The springs apply about an 8 pound force to the rudder cables (pre-load if you will), assuming they will want to maintain in equilibrium a 30 degree deflection should be more than enough to trim the airplane."
Would someone flying, been willing to measure the force it takes to deflect the rudder under flight loads? The measurement wouldn't need to be exact, just close. Just have a passanger with a fish scale hooked to the bottom of the rudder pedal as you push on the matching pedal may work. I'm sure there are other ways to do this- Hey this is one ingenious bunch! Having this force measurement will aid greatly in the design and initial success of this trim system.
Is someone up to doing this? I know this is asking a lot. One you've got to go flying and two you have to find someone to ride along with you:) But joking aside I think this would speed the development along and I for one would be very appetitive.
Thanks for any help,
Vern Smith (#324 motor mount ready to install)
do not archive
| Quote: |
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Rudder Trim - Spring Bias
From: jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:55:17 -0600
I have 'developed' a spring bias rudder trim system for the RV-10. After sharing this idea with Deems he encouraged me to do the same with the rest of the group. So here goes, but before I get into any details let me preface this whole conversation with a few thoughts. This is all in theory, I have absolutely no actual flight testing to back up any of the 'claims', or assumptions. Just good old common sense and a tiny bit of engineering. Our airplane is not in the air yet, I had hoped to get in the air, prove out the system, then share with the world. To prevent anyone else for possibly needlessly cutting into their rudder to add a trim tab, I have decided to bear the scrutiny of an unproven, theoretical system. Please be gentle... |
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailŪ-get your "fix". Check it out. | Quote: | | get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. Play now! 01234567890123456
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jkreidler
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Request of those flying (was Rudder Trim - Spring Bias |
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"Also, if you need 30 degrees of pedal movement to hold the airplane in trim, I suspect you have something else very wrong going on so that should be plenty."
Just to clarify, I am not suggesting that a thirty degree deflection of the free leg of the spring will produce thirty degrees of pedal movement. The thirty degree deflection is the amount of bias available to produce a much smaller movement of the actual rudder. Because the first spring is counteracting the second spring, the difference in the induced tension between the two is your ability to trim.
Thanks, Jason
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