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knowvne(at)aol.com
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

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		  Rotax 503  Questions.. to all you 503 experts I'm looking at the 503  for it's reliability record...I'm considering Oil Injection to avoid pre mix issues when  flying XC...I'm also considering installing a clutch for the Prop...What are the pros and cons of  oil Injection vs premix and with & without a clutch???What's the best configuration????  What advantages does one set up have over the other and why??I'm looking to get my cake and eat it here ??? 8-)ThanksMark 	
	
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imap8ntr(at)cox.net
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

Mark

 I have had a 582 with no  problems.  I still prefered to mix my oil.  I have heard from more  knowledgeable people that the oil injection is just one more thing to go wrong  and fail unlike mixing the oil NEVER fails.  I would certainly trust mixing  oil if I was on a xc.  Did a cross country of 300+ miles once and just  brought some oil with me.  Either figured out how much was in the gas tank  and added the appropriate amount of oil or had a 5 gal jug along to mix.  I  have also "heard" that one has less control with oil injection because it doesnt  adapt well when t he  RPM changes.  I fly trikes by the way and never  thought of oil mixing as a pain.  It was just my extra margin of  safety.

  

 Ivan

 Phoenix,  AZ

 [quote]   ---

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ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

I prefer to mix my gas as well when I was running a 2  stroke  that's just another thing to worry about failing and it was never a  problem carrying extra oil  buy a oil measuring cup from wicks aircraft I  think it was and when you fill up at an airport know how much you pumped in and  use your measuring cup to get the exact amount of oil then  when the engine  is running you know its getting the lubrication  it needs  

  

 Ellery Test flying KITFOX & XAir and working on my  Mk3Xtra 

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 3/5/2008 4:02:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  imap8ntr(at)cox.net writes:

 [quote]   Mark

   I have had a 582 with no    problems.  I still prefered to mix my oil.  I have heard from more    knowledgeable people that the oil injection is just one more thing to go wrong    and fail unlike mixing the oil NEVER fails.  I would certainly trust    mixing oil if I was on a xc.  Did a cross country of 300+ miles once and    just brought some oil with me.  Either figured out how much was in the    gas tank and added the appropriate amount of oil or had a 5 gal jug along to    mix.  I have also "heard" that one has less control with oil injection    because it doesnt adapt well when t he  RPM changes.  I fly trikes    by the way and never thought of oil mixing as a pain.  It was just my    extra margin of safety.

    

   Ivan

   Phoenix,  AZ

   [quote]     ---

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knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

Hi Guys  Thanks for getting back to me on this... I can fully understand why you want to reduce any mechanical failure potential....

  

  BUT here is a question directed at the Pre mix approach...

 

   

  If premixing is viewed as safer so to maintain consistent lubrication

  Isn't the motor ALSO more prone to carbon build up, Fowled plugs, and

  gumming of the carburetors especially if you go on long  reduced power glides???

  

  With a consistent amount of Oil passing through the system Are you Especially 

  prone to these sorts of problem ???  

  

  

  

  

 

  Questions Regarding the Oil Injection systems: 

  

  As I understand it,  Oil injection system do fail but they are designed to regulate 

  the correct amount of Oil needed ...... 

  

  NOW here is where I'm lost.... This  regulated Oil is based on what  EXACTLY!!?  

  

  A) based only on engine RPMs 

  B) Throttle Position ????  

  

  I don't see the two as the same thing ???

  

  

  More oil for Higher RPM and less oil for Less RPMs seems to be what we want

  

  BUT An Engines RPM is not only increased by Throttle position it  can also be 

  increased by diving the plane... 

  

  

  Hence my Question is it  throttle position  or RPM of motor that changes the

  amount of oil being fed to the system..

  

  

 

  If the answer is Throttle Position then this seems to be a good justification for installing a CLUCH ... 

  In My mind this would prevent high motor RPMs  which would under lubricate the motor

  when in a dive...

  

  Would using a Clutch on the Prop be a good idea for a MOTOR that has an Oil Injection 

  system if in fact Oil being supplied is based only on the throttle Position???

  

  

  Thanks Guys..   

  

  Mark

  

 

  

  

   --

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ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

I have put a lot of time on 5 different 2 stroke  engines and I never had a carbon build up problem. 

 as far as what regulates the oil Throttle Position and  or RPM you will have to ask someone that is an expert on that I don't claim to  be a 2 stroke professional  even though I have a lot of time flying with  them and I don't want to miss lead you on something I am not sure of  

  

 Ellery in Maine Building MK3Xtra

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 3/5/2008 6:10:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  knowvne(at)aol.com writes:

 [quote]Hi    Guys     Thanks for getting back to me on this...    I can fully understand why you want to reduce any mechanical failure    potential....

   

   BUT here is a question directed at the Pre mix approach...



      

   If premixing is viewed as safer so to    maintain consistent lubrication

   Isn't the motor ALSO more prone to carbon build up, Fowled plugs,    and

   gumming of the carburetors especially if you go on long     reduced power glides???

   

   With a consistent amount of Oil passing through the system Are you    Especially 

   prone to these sorts of problem ???  

   

   

   

   



   Questions Regarding the Oil Injection systems: 

   

   As I understand it,  Oil injection system do fail but they are    designed to regulate 

   the correct amount of Oil needed ...... 

   

   NOW here is where I'm lost.... This  regulated Oil is based on what     EXACTLY!!?  

   

   A) based only on engine RPMs 

   B) Throttle Position ????  

   

   I don't see the two as the same thing ???

   

   

   More oil for Higher RPM and less oil for Less RPMs seems to be what    we want

   

   BUT An Engines RPM is not only increased by Throttle    position it  can also be 

   increased by diving the plane... 

   

   

   Hence my Question is it  throttle position  or RPM of motor    that changes the

   amount of oil being fed to the system..

   

   



   If the answer is Throttle Position then this seems to be a good    justification for installing a CLUCH ... 

   In My mind this would prevent high motor RPMs  which would under    lubricate the motor

   when in a dive...

   

   Would using a Clutch on the Prop be a good idea for a MOTOR that    has an Oil Injection 

   system if in fact Oil being supplied is based only on the throttle    Position???

   

   

   Thanks Guys..   

   

   Mark

   



   

   

      --

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knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

Thanks Ellery  

 

 

 --

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08

Do you put the oil in first and add the gas or the other way around....  Gas and oil are supposed to be thoroughly mixed before being used.  To do that you really should either buy your gas pre mixed (marina) or mix it in a separate tank before putting it in your plane.   

   

BTW the recommended procedure is to put the oil in a mixing container first then add the gas.  

   

Just out of curiosity has any one actually seen an injection pump break??  I’ve seen oil filter blocked, regular checks weren’t done.  I’ve seen pumps air locked they weren’t properly bled when installed.... Those engines were all inverted (plugs down).  

   

I live in a small town where, I’m just about the only one in town who doesn’t have an oil injected snowmobile.  I sold mine a few years back to go flying.  Not one of the locals mix their gas..  And surprisingly, to me, none have had any problems with their injection systems.  They use their sno-mo(s) under excruciating circumstances hauling loads of wood for next winter, racing and visiting their “camps” up in the woods.  Thier maintenance on the oil filters is minimal.  I’ve seen just about every other part either be demolished or worn out but the injector pumps never seem to quit.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ElleryWeld(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:42 PM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: RotaxEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/04/08  

  

  

     

I prefer to mix my gas as well when I was running a 2 stroke  that's just another thing to worry about failing and it was never a problem carrying extra oil  buy a oil measuring cup from wicks aircraft I think it was and when you fill up at an airport know how much you pumped in and use your measuring cup to get the exact amount of oil then  when the engine is running you know its getting the lubrication  it needs   

    

   

    

Ellery Test flying KITFOX & XAir and working on my Mk3Xtra   

    

do not archive  

    

   

      

In a message dated 3/5/2008 4:02:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, imap8ntr(at)cox.net writes:  

  [quote]    

Mark  

    

I have had a 582 with no problems.  I still prefered to mix my oil.  I have heard from more knowledgeable people that the oil injection is just one more thing to go wrong and fail unlike mixing the oil NEVER fails.  I would certainly trust mixing oil if I was on a xc.  Did a cross country of 300+ miles once and just brought some oil with me.  Either figured out how much was in the gas tank and added the appropriate amount of oil or had a 5 gal jug along to mix.  I have also "heard" that one has less control with oil injection because it doesnt adapt well when t he  RPM changes.  I fly trikes by the way and never thought of oil mixing as a pain.  It was just my extra margin of safety.  

    

   

    

Ivan  

    

Phoenix,  AZ  

  [quote]    

---

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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