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cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
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Buz- I was talking to Ryan (at) Green Landings and he
said you did a great job cleaning up your plane to get
it to go much faster than any esqual lightning hybrid
should go. I'm looking for someone who can help clean
up my plane. The plane is located at Green Landings in
WV. Would you or anyone you know be willing to put in
the time to do it, with pay, of course. I want my
plane to really be ale to come close to the Lightning
published cruise speed. Right now I think I am about
20-25 mph off that mark. Ryan said with the new wood
prop and wheel pants on I will get closer, probably
within 10-15 mph of the magical 175. It also doesn't
help that I have extra weight witht the brs install. I
would be willing to work along side with you and put
you up in a hotel in WV and cover expenses. I really,
really want my Lightning to be as fast as possible.
Charles
--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I know that I've done a little over a 200 mile leg
and burned about 6 gallons of gas. Should be
about33 mpg. Still, I bet none of your cars get
that. Can you say that about a Piper or a Cessna?
Can you even saythat about a Cirrus? Brian W.
_________________________________________________________________
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
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Group,
Our 2007 demo built stock and flown with a 62 FK 58 wood prop would
regularly true out at 165(at) 5000 feet at 2950-3000RPM ....and at 8000 would
get 170 TAS
The 2008 demo will run slightly more pitch maybe 60" and should run above
170.....This was not particularly cleaned up but built stock...wheel pants
and fairings....
Nick
--
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
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Hi Charles,
I have been out of town so that is why I am just now getting around to answering your last message. Apparently I stay way too busy, and my schedule looks full through the fall.
The key to maximizing airspeed for any airplane is of course minimizing drag. As you know the Lightning is pretty darn clean already, but there are a few things you can do (as Nick had done at the factory) to add some MPH. As I am sure Ryan has already mentioned, the gear leg fairings and wheel pants that Arion has for the Lightning are the latest type of low pressure design and will help lower drag quite a bit. But when you put the wheel fairings on, you need to take the time to fit them properly so the any gap between the fuselage bottom and the fairing is minimized and the same at the bottom end. Then seal what gap is there some way. I use a combination of rubber edge molding and plastic tape. Also, you need to make sure both fairings are exactly inline with the aircraft centerline. If they are not, then you loose some efficiency to the drag lowering effort. Recently, Linda and I noticed that her airplane had developed a "ball out of center" condition which we finally found was one of the gear leg farinings not being perfectly aligned. Obviously that adds drag. After realigning the fairing it was much better. Remember though that normally the ball will be centered at some trimmed airspeed. Above that it will be on one side and below that to the other side.
Same thing with the wheel pants. They need to fit perfectly. And that means in alignment with the airplane. So make sure they are installed so that they align with the centerline of the airplane and that their nose and tail are also aligned with the C/L. One other thing about making sure the wheel pants are the most efficient is the gap between the tire and the pant. Too much gap and you have ruined some of the efficiency of the pant. Too small a gap and you will probably rub the pant with the tire and tear up some fiberglass. I generally look for about the thickness of my index finger clearance between the tire and the pant at the front and the real. On the sides, I look for about the width of my index finger. To make things simple, use a half inch for both if you have a strange size index finger like some of you monkeys out there. If you are going to err on the cautious side, use slightly more along the tire sidewalls where they tend to spread out on a harder than normal landing. Yes, I know, none of us do that.
Some other things to do to reduce drag is to build your airplane square and put all antennas inside. Antennas can be quite draggy and having a glass airplane lets you put them inside the fiberglass structure to lower drag. As to building you airplane square, take the time to make sure all angles of incidence, etc. are as called for and the same on both sides. Do you have the proper gap on the ailerons and flaps? Also, cooling drag can be worked on, but Arion had done a good job on this already. But there is always room for experimenting.
The last thing to do to insure the highest cruise speed (or top speed) of your Lightning is to make sure you have the right propeller. Nick or Ryan can give you a ball park or even suggest a particular size prop, but each airplane is different. Some are built square, some are not. Some weigh more than others and thus the airplane and engine work harder. Some have accurately installed fairings and pants, others do not. And then there are engines - some engines have more power than others. For a while the 3300 with the new hydraulic lifters were down a little on horse power and RPM when compared with the solid lifter engines. The new cam profile has fixed that. So which engine do you have? If you really want to go faster, then don't use the ground adjustable Sensenich. It is fine up to 150 to 160, but for some reason seems to loose efficiency above those numbers. Nick and I both have set a ground adjustable to the exact pitch of a fixed pitch wood prop, and the wooden prop will always be faster. Not sure why, but it may have something to do with the way the wood prop flexes or unloads at the higher rpms. As I have said before, props are part science and part voodoo. I am still experimenting with what will be best for N31BZ. I am currently running a 64ZK56, but will be checking out a 62XX60 that Nick has waiting for me when I get the time (oh yes, I have a solid lifter engine). I should be in Tennessee later this month to both to try this new prop and to fly the new 2008 Demo.
Hope all this helps. Entire books have been written on this subject and others will probably be written in the future. Perhaps this will be a good discussion topic at the second annual Lightning fly-in.
Blue Skies,
Buz
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
[quote][b]
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
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In a message dated 3/10/2008 10:01:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flylightning.net writes:
| Quote: | Our 2007 demo built stock and flown with a 62 FK 58 wood prop would
regularly true out at 165(at) 5000 feet at 2950-3000RPM ....and at 8000 would
get 170 TAS
|
To add to what Nick said, the 2007 Demo also had the hydraulic lifter engine that was down slightly on horse power and rpm. The engine in the 2008 Demo will have the hydraulic lifter with the new cam profile that should return the lost power and rpm. It should be a speed demon.
Buz
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
[quote][b]
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | "If you really want to go faster, then don't use the ground adjustable
Sensenich. It is fine up to 150 to 160, but for some reason seems to loose
efficiency above those numbers. Nick and I both have set a ground adjustable to
the exact pitch of a fixed pitch wood prop, and the wooden prop will always be
faster. Not sure why, but it may have something to do with the way the wood
prop flexes or unloads at the higher rpms."I noticed that too, but just figured it had to do with the smaller engine and the rotational mass of the much heavier ground adjustable prop and not being ableto achieve the same RPM. When you compare the weights to a fixed pitch wooden prop, well the wood prop is really really light. Brian W. |
|
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. Learn more. [quote][b]
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:38 am Post subject: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane |
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You know Buz. This would be a great topic for the newsletter… You have basically written it already.
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 12:42 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: To Buz re: cleaning up my plane
Hi Charles,
I have been out of town so that is why I am just now getting around to answering your last message. Apparently I stay way too busy, and my schedule looks full through the fall.
The key to maximizing airspeed for any airplane is of course minimizing drag. As you know the Lightning is pretty darn clean already, but there are a few things you can do (as Nick had done at the factory) to add some MPH. As I am sure Ryan has already mentioned, the gear leg fairings and wheel pants that Arion has for the Lightning are the latest type of low pressure design and will help lower drag quite a bit. But when you put the wheel fairings on, you need to take the time to fit them properly so the any gap between the fuselage bottom and the fairing is minimized and the same at the bottom end. Then seal what gap is there some way. I use a combination of rubber edge molding and plastic tape. Also, you need to make sure both fairings are exactly inline with the aircraft centerline. If they are not, then you loose some efficiency to the drag lowering effort. Recently, Linda and I noticed that her airplane had developed a "ball out of center" condition which we finally found was one of the gear leg farinings not being perfectly aligned. Obviously that adds drag. After realigning the fairing it was much better. Remember though that normally the ball will be centered at some trimmed airspeed. Above that it will be on one side and below that to the other side.
Same thing with the wheel pants. They need to fit perfectly. And that means in alignment with the airplane. So make sure they are installed so that they align with the centerline of the airplane and that their nose and tail are also aligned with the C/L. One other thing about making sure the wheel pants are the most efficient is the gap between the tire and the pant. Too much gap and you have ruined some of the efficiency of the pant. Too small a gap and you will probably rub the pant with the tire and tear up some fiberglass. I generally look for about the thickness of my index finger clearance between the tire and the pant at the front and the real. On the sides, I look for about the width of my index finger. To make things simple, use a half inch for both if you have a strange size index finger like some of you monkeys out there. If you are going to err on the cautious side, use slightly more along the tire sidewalls where they tend to spread out on a harder than normal landing. Yes, I know, none of us do that.
Some other things to do to reduce drag is to build your airplane square and put all antennas inside. Antennas can be quite draggy and having a glass airplane lets you put them inside the fiberglass structure to lower drag. As to building you airplane square, take the time to make sure all angles of incidence, etc. are as called for and the same on both sides. Do you have the proper gap on the ailerons and flaps? Also, cooling drag can be worked on, but Arion had done a good job on this already. But there is always room for experimenting.
The last thing to do to insure the highest cruise speed (or top speed) of your Lightning is to make sure you have the right propeller. Nick or Ryan can give you a ball park or even suggest a particular size prop, but each airplane is different. Some are built square, some are not. Some weigh more than others and thus the airplane and engine work harder. Some have accurately installed fairings and pants, others do not. And then there are engines - some engines have more power than others. For a while the 3300 with the new hydraulic lifters were down a little on horse power and RPM when compared with the solid lifter engines. The new cam profile has fixed that. So which engine do you have? If you really want to go faster, then don't use the ground adjustable Sensenich. It is fine up to 150 to 160, but for some reason seems to loose efficiency above those numbers. Nick and I both have set a ground adjustable to the exact pitch of a fixed pitch wood prop, and the wooden prop will always be faster. Not sure why, but it may have something to do with the way the wood prop flexes or unloads at the higher rpms. As I have said before, props are part science and part voodoo. I am still experimenting with what will be best for N31BZ. I am currently running a 64ZK56, but will be checking out a 62XX60 that Nick has waiting for me when I get the time (oh yes, I have a solid lifter engine). I should be in Tennessee later this month to both to try this new prop and to fly the new 2008 Demo.
Hope all this helps. Entire books have been written on this subject and others will probably be written in the future. Perhaps this will be a good discussion topic at the second annual Lightning fly-in.
Blue Skies,
Buz
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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