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RV-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/13/08

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aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: RV-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/13/08

Hi Chuck-



Indeed, the embrittlement of SS doesn't seem to be much of a concern

anymore, although it still does seem to be one for the fuel rods.  Clearly,

that represents a lot less waste in a much more manageable form than if the

whole primary apparatus has to be scrapped periodically.



However, WRT the tritium issue:



You wrote "> As Jerry Isler pointed out...don't confuse commercial nuclear

power with Government

 	  Quote: 	
		   weapons programs."


	


In response to what I wrote: "Not a direct correlation to the civil

power industry, "  



You also wrote "However, to call tritium

 	  Quote: 	
		   permanent and highly toxic is mistaken on all accounts.  


	


In response to "but an example of a permanent, highly toxic waste leak that

wasn't supposed to happen, and won't get better by itself"



Okay, I could have phrased that more carefully.  The comment was about the

leak in general.  If tritium is leaking from the buried reactors and

getting into the ground water, you can bet other, highly toxic things are

as well.  



Also:  >With a half-life of

 	  Quote: 	
		   12 years, tritium decays away rapidly which is the reason the Government

keeps
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   wanting to replenish its supply for warheads.


	


Okay, in geologic terms it has an excruciatingly short life span.  To

someone drinking water laced with tritium on a daily basis, it lasts long

enough.



 	  Quote: 	
		   As to it being highly toxic, this is simply not so.  The beta radiation

given off
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   by tritium will not penetrate a piece of paper or your skin.  It is only

of
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   interest when ingested.  


	


Like from the city water supply.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Even then, being water based, it is rapidly excreted

 from the body...especially if you help it along with a six-pack.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  From the Hazardous Substances Data Bank:


	


Human Toxicity Excerpts: 

..Tritium in water form is readily retained in the body and remains with a

biological half-life of approximately 10 days. Due to the body's ready

adsorption of tritium in the form of tritiated water, exposure to tritiated

water in air is on the order of 15,000 to 25,000 times more hazardous than

exposure to gaseous tritium (HT, DT, and T2). 

[USDOE; DOE Handbook Tritium Handling and Safe Storage

DOE-HDBK-11290YrXXXX-YR p. 5 (December 1991). Available from

http://www.eh.doe.gov/techstds/tsdrafts/doe-hdbk-1129-yr.pdf as of July 29,

2006 ]**PEER REVIEWED**



Okay, with a biological half life of 10 days, and drinking water repeatedly

each day, continuos exposure seems to be a given.  And IIRC, the Pacific

northwest is rather fond and proud of it's local breweries, so I'm guessing

the six-pack will only hurt, not help.



 	  Quote: 	
		   So, reactor embrittlement, like tritium, sound pretty ominous, but

neither are
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   of consequence to the safety of the plant or public.  Now, if you would

like to
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   discuss the environmental safety of the DOE sites (Oak Ridge, Hanford,

Savannah
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   River, et al), that's an altogether different animal, but has nothing to

do
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   with commercial nuclear power used to produce electricity, so please

don't confuse
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   the two.


	


I say again, "Not a direct correlation to the civil

power industry, "  



 	  Quote: 	
		   If given the choice to live 10 miles down wind of a coal fired plant or a

nuclear
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   plant, the nuclear plant is the choice by a landslide.  The coal fired

plant
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   actually emits more radiation than a nuclear plant because of the natural

radioisotopes
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   in coal that are continuously emitted into the air, along with sulfur,

 particulates and a potpourri of other chemicals.  Nuclear is represented

 to be clean for a reason!


	


Clearly, that bit of marketing hasn't worked too well.  



glen matejcek

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne

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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: RV-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/13/08

Well, I wasn't going to post a reply, since nuclear power is certainly off topic, but intellectual curiousity rarely knows bounds nor can it be easily pidgeon-holed to just building an RV.  Personnally, I enjoy education whereever I bump into it but some are advised to avail themselves of the delete key if they are not similarly stricken.



Hi, Glen,



Good comments all.  Hanford particularly has some scary environmental stuff out there...and certainly not as well contained as it should be.  Billions have been spent and many billions more are in line to be spent to mitigate, not solve the problems.  For instance, they have several, million-gallon single walled tanks of suspect integrity containing a witches' brew that will actually boil from the heat generated by the decaying cesium.  I think most of this material has been transferred to new double-walled tanks, but there are always residual problems.



Hanford has had multiple plumes reach the Columbia River.  There's no pretty face that can be put on it.  However, the fact that tritium has migrated off of the reservation shouldn't be used as a marker for other, even more hazardous materials.  Tritium, because it will not ion exchange with the soil and can not be filtered, is by far the worst migrator and toughest to contain.



Even in this circumstance, you would have to drink massive quantities of water from the Columbia everyday, and not excrete any liquids, for a long period of time to even begin to register a potential health threat.  Yes, liquid tritium is 10,000 times more of a threat than gaseous tritium, but then, 10,000 times nothing is still not much.  If you want to be scared, watch the trucks going down the highway loaded with chemicals or the trains running through backyards that contain massive quantities of toxic, hazardous, flammable and explosive materials.  THAT is a clear and present danger.



I happen to have beed appointed to the Oak Ridge Site Specific Advisory Board.  Our responsibility is to oversee (some would say, second guess) the cleanup activities of the Oak Ridge Reservation. To say we subject them to rigorous, even adversarial, review ins an understatement.  While Oak Ridge doesn't have the degree of problem that Hanford does, its still significant.  Even then, in the worst case, a person that drank all of his water from the most polluted stream, ate one deer and two turkey's from the reservation, ate 3 fish per week from the stream and breathed the air in the worst part of the reservation 24x7, he would receive a total exposure of 6 milliRem per year.  To put that in perspective, the average person in the U.S. receives approx. 350 milliRem exposure from the food we eat, living in a brick house, radon, radium watches, medical procedures, commercial airline flights, et al.  While the unknown is often scary, the facts are not.



The chemical contamination of our drinking water, including pharmaceuticals, is something to be far more alarmed about than the isolated incident of a small leak of tritium or other radioisotope (though even a small one is inexcusable).  Just my thoughts.



Thanks,

Chuck Jensen



Diversified Technologies

2680 Westcott Blvd

Knoxville, TN  37931

Phn:    865-539-9000 x100

Cell:    865-406-9001

Fax:     865-539-9001

cjensen(at)dts9000.com



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prtrotter

Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 14

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: RV-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/13/08

Personally C I have enjoyed reading these posts E 6nbsp; It is particularly interesting when someone like Chuck C who is very knowledgable on the subject C can give us real information E 6nbsp;

  6nbsp;

 Paul



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