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peterkeast(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

While drilling the 601 XL rudder skin (already had cleko'd every third hole)

the drill jumped out of the pilot hole and created a new hole on rib 4..i'm

kind of feeling a little sick right now.I expect I can't rivet that hole,

and will likely have to replace the skin..and the rib4.and I'm thinking,

probably a new skin will not line up with the existing holes, so I have to

build a whole new rudder kit.please check out the pics and let me know if

there is any way around this.



The new hole is 2 mm to the outside of the rivet line (at 7mm from the edge

as opposed to 9).  maybe I can still use that hole? but what about the pilot

hole (not drilled thru rib.still just pilot hole in skin)



Thanks for the help,



Peter

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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

You might be able to fill the pilot hole with an A3 solid rivet (or  

even a pulled rivet) if the holes aren't too close together. These are  

the size rivets used to attach the nut-plates for access panels.  

Judging by your photos, this looks like it will work. A countersunk  

rivet will hardly be noticed. You might even be able to fill the hole  

with metal by brazing or welding. If you're planning on painting the  

plane, you can probably just use some body filler and paint over it.  

One rivet slightly out of position and the extra hole isn't going to  

matter as far as the structure is concerned in that area. This is just  

a cosmetic issue, I wouldn't be overly concerned with it. I don't  

think you'll need to replace the skin.



On Mar 15, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Peter A. Keast wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 While drilling the 601 XL rudder skin (already had cleko'd every  

 third hole)

 the drill jumped out of the pilot hole and created a new hole on rib  

 4..i'm

 kind of feeling a little sick right now.I expect I can't rivet that  

 hole,

 and will likely have to replace the skin..and the rib4.and I'm  

 thinking,

 probably a new skin will not line up with the existing holes, so I  

 have to

 build a whole new rudder kit.please check out the pics and let me  

 know if

 there is any way around this.



 The new hole is 2 mm to the outside of the rivet line (at 7mm from  

 the edge

 as opposed to 9).  maybe I can still use that hole? but what about  

 the pilot

 hole (not drilled thru rib.still just pilot hole in skin)



 Thanks for the help,



 Peter

 <020.jpg><022.jpg>


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

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_________________
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

not the prettiest fix - but would have met the MRB (Material Review Board) requirements at any of the big companies I have worked for...



Open the through drilled hole in the skin to just clear the head of the rivet and pull the rivet in the hole in the rib flange. Locate and drill a rivet hole on each side of the bad installation, with correct edge distance in both the rib flange and from the edge of the hole in the skin that the rivet head is filled with. The new rivet holes should be at least .25" from the edge of the opening in the skin to the center of the new hole.



If you do a clean job opening the hole in the skin (it will be oval shaped) and the adjacent new fasteners, you can apply some green 3M spot putty to fill the hole onto the rivet head in the bad hole and most people will never see it or the extra two rivets.



Sounds like you might be using a slow drill. Fast is good, faster is better, fastest is best!



"Peter A. Keast"  <peterkeast(at)cox.net> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		       

While drilling the 601 XL rudder skin (already had cleko'd every third hole)

the drill jumped out of the pilot hole and created a new hole on rib 4..i'm

kind of feeling a little sick right now.I expect I can't rivet that hole,

and will likely have to replace the skin..and the rib4.and I'm thinking,

probably a new skin will not line up with the existing holes, so I have to

build a whole new rudder kit.please check out the pics and let me know if

there is any way around this.



The new hole is 2 mm to the outside of the rivet line (at 7mm from the edge

as opposed to 9).  maybe I can still use that hole? but what about the pilot

hole (not drilled thru rib.still just pilot hole in skin)



Thanks for the help,



Peter

	


  Dave Downey

   Harleysville (SE) PA

  100 HP Corvair

        [quote][b]

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davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

Peter



I think you are over reacting.



    If you dimple the pilot hole and fill it with a flush 3-2 solid rivet it

will be nearly invisible. then use the slightly off center

hole for the pop rivet.   If the bottom of the rivet interferes with a rib

you may have to clearance this area also or place

a 3-3 solid flush rivet into a dimpled pilot hole and dimpled rib flange



I dropped my rudder skin just before final riveting.  I had to order a new

skin and it was not hard to back drill the new

skin from the old skin used as a template.  Then it fit the ribs perfectly

but this is the $100 dollar fix.  I think the rivet at 2 cents is a better

option.



Gary Ray

601XL

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net

---

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ch701builder

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 119
Location: N38.9947,W105.1305,ALT. 9,100'

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

Hey Peter,

See if you can get by with adding a rivet to each side of the hole,(between the clecos and oops hole). Even if the oops hole is drilled in the middle of "nothing" you can always put a rivet in, just to fill the hole. I have seen planes where the skin was drilled totally wrong for the rib location, and they just filled in the holes with rivets.



Good luck,

Keith

CH701 -- scratch

N 38.9947

W 105.1305

Alt. 9,100'

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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

Peter, we have all been there at one time or another.  Part of the fun and challenge of homebuilding is how we deal with our screw-ups.  I guarantee if you go to a gathering like Oshkosh and look around you will not find a cosmetically perfect plane.  Perhaps it is a good thing that this happened early so that you can get beyond it... like getting the first scratch on a new car 



Me, I'd fill the hole with spot putty or the like.  If it makes you feel better you can add an additional rivet to either side between the correct rivet and it's intended neighbors.  Structural integrity will not be compromised.



I agree that having a fast drill is important.  I use a Sioux 3500 rpm palm drill (air) which works great.  It is also important to use sharp 135° split point drill bits because they tend to hold their center and not wander.  I know some of the guys sharpen them but my advice is when the bit starts to get dull, toss it and put in a new one.  In the Yard store catalog #40 bits are only $0.70 each   <www>



Tim



do not archive

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_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

thesumak(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Emailing: 020.jpg, 022.jpg

Peter:

     

    Looks like you have gotten some good advice.  If you decide to fill that small hole with a solid flush rivet, I might suggest that you not drill that hole through the rib flange since that would compound the problem of having holes too close together.  Rather, I would slightly countersink the underside of the skin and install the rivet with the bucked side out.  After assembly, you can file the bucked side flush with the skin and it becomes just a metal plug.  I have done this a time or two. 

     

    With me, it seems the real challenge of the building process is how safely and elegantly I can dig myself out of mistakes.  I also find it helpful to re-read the construction standards every few months.  I’m always surprised at how many of my questions get answered there.

     

    Good luck,

    Bill

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