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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:01 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

I'm adding an auxiliary tank to my UltraStar... I have a pretty good idea 

of how I'll plumb it, but I'd like to collect some other opinions.



My US has the stock setup with two 1.75 gallon tanks under my legs.  I'm at 

a bit of a loss why the valves (the ones that plug into the tanks through a 

rubber bushing) have two outlets.  The manual says to cap one side of one 

tank's valve, connect the two tanks together, and run the remaining outlet 

to the engine.  When I got my plane, there was no cap, the tanks were 

connected as per the manual, and both outlets were connected together via a 

"Y" fitting, thence to the engine.  Other than replacing all the tubing, I 

left it the way it was (but see below).



I've considered moving the bulb primer to one leg of the "Y".  This would 

require closing the other tank valve when priming, but with both valves 

open would give the fuel a path around the primer bulb in case of blockage 

(such a blockage in a brand new primer bulb almost ended my first flight 

before I made it around the pattern once).  Thoughts?



But on to the real reason for this post.  The new 1.5 gallon (for a total 

of 5 gallons) tank will be mounted, quick release, to the rear of the seat 

(I'm actually mounting it to the seat back itself as I don't want to do any 

welding on the cage).  I'm also using a quick disconnect connector in the 

fuel line so I can remove the tank if I need to carry it somewhere to be 

filled, for example if I land out somewhere and have to get fuel.  The 

separate removable tank also makes oil mixing easy.  Since this tank will 

be above the other tanks, I'll open the valve to drain it down when the 

others are half empty.



The issue is plumbing.  The obvious thought is to simply connect it via a 

tee fitting into the fuel lines.  However, I'm concerned that once the aux 

tank is empty the fuel pump will start sucking air from the aux tank 

instead of fuel from the lower tanks, which would be a bad thing.   The 

alternative, which seems the best approach, is to connect the aux tank into 

a new fitting on top of one of the main tanks... but I'm open to other 

thoughts and suggestions.  I'm also naturally concerned with getting any 

debris from the drilling out of the tank (I'd rather not have to drain and 

remove it, etc.), and drilling large holes in thin plastic is a PITA 

anyway, so my thought is to drill the hole with a sharpened piece of tubing 

rather than a conventional drill.



-Dana

--

  Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

> I'm adding an auxiliary tank to my UltraStar... I have a pretty good idea

 	  Quote: 	
		   of how I'll plumb it, but I'd like to collect some other opinions.

 >
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   -Dana


	




Dana:



First mod I did to my US a couple weeks after I started flying it in 1984, 

was add a third 1.75 gal go cart tank inside the airframe above the engine 

and behind my head.  No welding required.  I mounted it using aluminum 

tubing and adel clamps.  Used gravity to drain into the main tanks when 

required.  Believe I T'd into the main fuel line, used the valve on the tank 

to control the fuel.  Worked great.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

At 09:00 AM 3/17/2008, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  First mod I did to my US a couple weeks after I started flying it in 1984, 

was add a third 1.75 gal go cart tank inside the airframe above the engine 

and behind my head.  No welding required.  I mounted it using aluminum 

tubing and adel clamps.  Used gravity to drain into the main tanks when 

required.  Believe I T'd into the main fuel line, used the valve on the 

tank to control the fuel.  Worked great.


	


Great minds think alike 



I had considered doing the Adel clamp thing, but the shape of the tank and 

the routing of the control cables, etc., seems to make the seat back 

mounting more logical, plus I have some nice aluminum channels that slip 

perfectly over the tank flanges so I can slide it in instead of bolting 

it... the tank I'm using is here:



http://fluids.flambeau.com/multipurpose_tanks/6.0_quart.html



I also considered adding a new 5 gallon tank above the engine and using the 

original tank space for storage, but that was more work than I care to do 

at the moment.



You didn't have any trouble with sucking air when the aux tank is empty?



-Dana

--

  "640K of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

> You didn't have any trouble with sucking air when the aux tank is empty?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 -Dana


	




Dana:



No.  Neither did the US.  



Been 24 years so details are a little fuzzy.  IIRC I turned off the fuel at 

the aux tank when transfer was complete.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Dana,

  

 FYI, I just installed 2 new 6 gal tanks in my Firestar II. With  regards to drilling holes, I had a lot of plastic cuttings in my new tanks after  I drilled the holes with a "Unibit" drill bit. I washed it all out with some  gas. So, from my experience if you cut holes, you will probably get some  debri in the tank.

  

 Jimmy Young

 FS II

 Houston

Jimmy_Young.vcf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Jimmy_Young.vcf

Filesize:

296 Bytes

Downloaded:

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_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Where'd you get the tanks & how much?  TNK told me their 6 gal.  tanks would not fit a FS II........

  

 Howard  Shackleford

FS II

SC   

  In a message dated 3/17/2008 4:46:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jdy100(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  FYI, I    just installed 2 new 6 gal tanks in my Firestar  II. 	






It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.

  [quote][b]

Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Howard-

  

 I got them from Travis at TNK. They fit, but it is a tight fit. Dan  Glib in Arizona owns a FS II and he gave me some advice which worked pretty  well. I'll send you off-line a pic he sent of his installation that helped  me. At his suggestion, I put velcro strips on the tanks where the cage tubing  comes in contact to prevent wear, as the 6 gal tanks are not as thick walled as  the 5 gal tanks are. It worked out nice. The tanks actually hold 6.5 gal with a  little air-room left, so it really gives you 13 gal. If anyone else is  interested in the pic, I've sent one to the Matronics Photoshare site, but it  says it will take a few days to post it. Or, you can email me off line and I'll  send you one.

  

 Jimmy Young

 FS II

 Houston

Jimmy_Young.vcf

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Filename:

Jimmy_Young.vcf

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_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Jimmy:

  

 You can attach a photo to the email you post to the  Kolb List.

  

 john h

  

  

 [quote]     If anyone else is interested in the    pic, I've sent one to the Matronics Photoshare site, but it says it will take    a few days to post it. Or, you can email me off line and I'll send you    one.

    

   Jimmy Young

   FS II

   Houston

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Best way to drill in thin plastic is with a hot nail or soldering iron.



No shavings to worry about but it does take a little fiddling to get an exact size hole.



I think that your "sucking air" is a valid concern and may actually manifest itself with your Y fitting as well if one tank drains before the other due to different fill levels or to blockage at the Y fitting.



I would suggest that you "daisy chain" all the tanks, where only the last highest tank in the chain(behind the seat) is vented and the others have airtight caps as they will nicely siphon each other down that way regardless of differing fuel tanks sizes or fuel levels. 



No messing with valves or trying to control fuel tanks while in flight with the daisy chain, its all automatic and ensures that every last drop of fuel from your other tanks ends up in the first tank in the chain with the line to the engine.



The other option would be to get a filter bowl and feed all 3 tanks into this collector/filter.  Essentially a small gravity feeder tank and is also better because you do not have to manage the fuel tanks with valves while in flight, and the possibility of sucking air is also eliminated.



I think putting T's and Y's in a fuel line is just asking for trouble. To many potential air leaks plus the sucking air bubbles problem when one tank runs out first at a T or Y fitting.



Y's and T's are also great places for blockages to occur.



My UltraStar has a 15 Gallon fiberglass fuel tank installed in the cage behind the seat.  It was very difficult to tell how much it holds just by looking due to the shape, but I was astounded when my 5 gal jerry can only made it 1/3 rd full.



I have to put a down pipe in the filler cap to limit the fuel capacity to part 103 capacity of ~5 gallons so I don't get in trouble for it.

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Dana Hague wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm adding an auxiliary tank to my UltraStar... I have a pretty good 

 idea of how I'll plumb it, but I'd like to collect some other opinions.



 My US has the stock setup with two 1.75 gallon tanks under my legs.  

 I'm at a bit of a loss why the valves (the ones that plug into the 

 tanks through a rubber bushing) have two outlets.  The manual says to 

 cap one side of one tank's valve, connect the two tanks together, and 

 run the remaining outlet to the engine.  When I got my plane, there 

 was no cap, the tanks were connected as per the manual, and both 

 outlets were connected together via a "Y" fitting, thence to the 

 engine.  Other than replacing all the tubing, I left it the way it was 

 (but see below).



 I've considered moving the bulb primer to one leg of the "Y".  This 

 would require closing the other tank valve when priming, but with both 

 valves open would give the fuel a path around the primer bulb in case 

 of blockage (such a blockage in a brand new primer bulb almost ended 

 my first flight before I made it around the pattern once).  Thoughts?



 But on to the real reason for this post.  The new 1.5 gallon (for a 

 total of 5 gallons) tank will be mounted, quick release, to the rear 

 of the seat (I'm actually mounting it to the seat back itself as I 

 don't want to do any welding on the cage).  I'm also using a quick 

 disconnect connector in the fuel line so I can remove the tank if I 

 need to carry it somewhere to be filled, for example if I land out 

 somewhere and have to get fuel.  The separate removable tank also 

 makes oil mixing easy.  Since this tank will be above the other tanks, 

 I'll open the valve to drain it down when the others are half empty.



 The issue is plumbing.  The obvious thought is to simply connect it 

 via a tee fitting into the fuel lines.  However, I'm concerned that 

 once the aux tank is empty the fuel pump will start sucking air from 

 the aux tank instead of fuel from the lower tanks, which would be a 

 bad thing.   The alternative, which seems the best approach, is to 

 connect the aux tank into a new fitting on top of one of the main 

 tanks... but I'm open to other thoughts and suggestions.  I'm also 

 naturally concerned with getting any debris from the drilling out of 

 the tank (I'd rather not have to drain and remove it, etc.), and 

 drilling large holes in thin plastic is a PITA anyway, so my thought 

 is to drill the hole with a sharpened piece of tubing rather than a 

 conventional drill.



 -Dana

 -- 

  Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock. 


	


My neighbor acquired a Thorp T-18 in a trade a couple of years ago. It 

had a baggage compartment aux tank plumbed through a shutoff into a 'T' 

at the bottom of the main tank, which is between the instrument panel & 

the firewall. It almost quit on him when when the aux tank emptied while 

flying it home from the trade. In order to prevent it from sucking air, 

the aux tank valve had to be closed before the tank was completely 

empty. Bede BD-4 fliers have the same problem due to multiple fuel 

pickups in each wing tank. (Yes, that's the way the fuel system was 

designed.) If one pickup 'unports', it will suck air & cause fuel 

starvation.



There's nothing inherently 'wrong' with this; most low wing factory 

planes require you to switch tanks as the selected tank nears the empty 

point to avoid sucking air from the empty tank. However, it does add 

work load & cushion crimp at every tank switching event. But as you 

fear, it's likely to cause engine stoppage if you forget to shut off the 

aux as it empties. That might be a much bigger deal in a Kolb with its 

lower inertia & the likelihood that you'll be flying closer to the 

ground than would be the case in a bigger factory plane.



I'm struggling with the same decision on the RV-7 I'm building now. 

It'll be much easier to plumb the aux tanks directly to the fuel 

delivery line, but there's always the risk of engine stoppage when an 

aux tank runs dry. (Of course, the same thing is true with the 2 stock 

main tanks, also, & there are almost 5000 RVs flying with that system.)



FWIW,



Charlie

travis(at)tnkolbaircraft.
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

> My neighbor acquired a Thorp T-18 in a trade a couple of years ago. It

 	  Quote: 	
		   had a baggage compartment aux tank plumbed through a shutoff into a 'T' at 

 the bottom of the main tank, which is between the instrument panel & the 

 firewall. It almost quit on him when when the aux tank emptied while 

 flying it home from the trade. In order to prevent it from sucking air, 

 the aux tank valve had to be closed before the tank was completely empty.

 Charlie


	




Charlie/Dana:



I built and flew an US and FS that both had aux tanks that gravity fed into 

the main tank(s).  IIRC I plumbed them into the tanks and not into a T.



Plastic tanks are easy to work with when adding additional fittings.  I 

never pulled fuel from the tops, but from the bottoms of tanks, using the 

large rubber grommets and special outlet fittings that pushed into them. 

With approximately 1,500 hours on both aircraft, I never experienced any 

problem with the fuel fittings or with my systems.



Take care,



john h

Labhart Field, KY

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

I put a 6 gallon Aux tank in my Kolb MK III to give me 16 gallons total fuel.   I did not want to complicate the fuel system or run any risk of having my motor quit due to fuel mismanagement by myself ( Made it idiot proof in case I get distracted ).   What I did was have the AUX tank feed into an electric Facett pump with an on - off valve.  I fly until my main tank get empty enough to take the extra 6 gallons, at which ponit I open the valve and turn on the pump which fills up the stock mains on my MK III in flight.  



If I forget and leave it on and forget the valve, no harm done, it pumps until empty and then I hear the pump rattling as it starts to suck air when there is no more to pump into the mains.   If I pump to early, it just over fills the mains and runs out the vent tube out to bottom of the plane, I lose some gas, but no harm done.  Even a failure of any part of the aux fuel system, the fuel hose, pump, valve, etc will not result in engine failure.   No matter what I do with this system, there is no way to screw it up to the point of making the engine quit.



I added the aux tank and extra 6 gallons of fuel to my stock MK III fuel system with no modification to the cage or original fuel system.  When I buy the new 18 gallon tank from TNK I will have 24 gallons of fuel as the AUX will work with the new tank the same way it works with the stock tanks.  What I really like about this AUX tank is that I always leave it empty unless I am flying cross country, so for the vast majority of my local flights, only fill the mains with no weight penalty from carrying extra gas.   Cost was less than 150 dollars for everything.   I can post pictures and schematics for anyone that wants them.



Mike



I can post pictures and schematic if anyone is interested.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

At 03:28 PM 3/22/2008, Charlie England wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...But as you fear, it's likely to cause engine stoppage if you forget to 

shut off the aux as it empties. That might be a much bigger deal in a Kolb 

with its lower inertia & the likelihood that you'll be flying closer to 

the ground than would be the case in a bigger factory plane...


	


Of course it's less of an issue in a conventional plane, too, because the 

prop will continue to windmill, and the engine will restart as soon as fuel 

is restored.



I don't recall how my T-Craft was plumbed, but there was no issue leaving 

the aux wing tank valve open even after it was fully drained into the main 

tank.  But, come to think of it, with gravity feed all the way to the 

carburetor it wouldn't be an issue anyway.  Sometimes it WAS an issue if it 

failed to start draining when the main tank was empty and the fuel was 

needed, but that's another story...



-Dana

--

  If we wish to "restore" respect for the law, a good start would be to 

pass only laws that people will respect.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

At 05:24 PM 3/22/2008, Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I built and flew an US and FS that both had aux tanks that gravity fed 

into the main tank(s).  IIRC I plumbed them into the tanks and not into a T.



Plastic tanks are easy to work with when adding additional fittings.  I 

never pulled fuel from the tops, but from the bottoms of tanks, using the 

large rubber grommets and special outlet fittings that pushed into them.


	


By "I never pulled fuel from the tops" I presume you mean fittings in the 

bottom as opposed to the dip tube fittings about halfway up that is the US 

stock setup (I think)?



I ordered the push in / rubber grommet fitting with the screen and valve 

for the aux tank, and I'll run it into the side of one of the main tanks 

wherever it's convenient.  I'll also use a self sealing quick disconnect in 

the fuel line so I can remove the tank when necessary.



-Dana



--

  If we wish to "restore" respect for the law, a good start would be to 

pass only laws that people will respect.

travis(at)tnkolbaircraft.
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

( Made it idiot proof in case I get distracted ).   What I did was have the 

AUX tank feed into an electric Facett pump with an on - off valve.  I fly 

until my main tank get empty enough to take the extra 6 gallons, at which 

ponit I open the valve and turn on the pump which fills up the stock mains 

on my MK III in flight.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 If I forget and leave it on and forget the valve, no harm done, it pumps 

 until empty and then I hear the pump rattling as it starts to suck air 

 when there is no more to pump into the mains.



 >
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike


	


Mike B:



What do you do if the idiot forgets to turn on the vlave and start the pump 

before the mains are empty?



If you put an operator in the cycle, in my opinion, it ain't idiot proof.



No way I could hear my electric fuel pump rattling in flight, not unless the 

engine was shut down.



I fly with 25 gal of fuel in one tank.  If I run out of that, then I'm the 

idiot.  



john h

mkIII

Labhart Field, KY

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

At 07:46 PM 3/22/2008, Travis Brown (Kolb Aircraft) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  What do you do if the idiot forgets to turn on the vlave and start the 

pump before the mains are empty?



If you put an operator in the cycle, in my opinion, it ain't idiot proof.


	


Been there, done [something like] that... filled the main tank in the 

T-Craft, then the aux tank, forgetting to closed the valve.  Soaked the 

whole front of the plane with avgas, then had to wait hours for it to dry, 

hoping nobody would walk by with a lit cigarette.  Worst part was I was in 

a hurry, en route from NJ to Ohio, with sunset looming.



-Dana



do not archive this pointless anecdote...

--

  Income tax: capital punishment.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

I can post pictures and schematic if anyone is interested.>>



Hi Mike,

yes please



Pat

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

In everything aircraft I take the RISK approach.



The fewer points of failure you introduce into a system the less likely it is to fail.



Points of potential failure in a fuel system are:



Valves, T's(Fittings of any kind ie couplers, quick disconnects etc), filters, pumps, electrical, and of course the operator.



Failures in the above result from:



Vibration, cracks, corrosion, air leaks, blockage, electrical failure(Loose wire or poor continuity), material failures due to age, heat, cold, brittleness, flexibility or lack of it(Kinked lines or cracking ones), distracted operator etc.



You get the picture....!



What ever you do just keep the points of failure to the absolute minimum that you can live with.



And remember that inconvenience on the GROUND is infinitely LESS RISKY than a problem in the AIR.

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

John,



If I turn on the Pump before the Mains are empty, they will overfill and the excess goes out the vent tube on the bottom on the plane.   Other than wasting fuel at almost 4 bucks a gallon, no harm is done.   If I forget the valve, the fuel simply wont be drawn by the pump, and it wont add fuel to the mains, but it does not affect them in any way ( no engine stoppage ).   Not quite as easy as the single large tank in your plane, but for 150 bucks and minimal work, it is a very good solution for those that would like more fuel for a stock MK III setup.   



Kolbs new tank is the best answer, I put my AUX tank in before that was available.  I will leave my AUX tank in even when I get the new 18 gallon tank, as that will give me 24 gallons if I ever need it.  I also save the weight as I can only fill the mains when I fly locally.  I only put gas in the AUX when I need to go cross country.



The noise proofing I did in my plane is quite effective, I am totally enclosed, and the pump is right behind me.  I can hear it in flight, and it gets louder if its left and it stops drawing fuel.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

Mike B.

  

   How about posting photos of this 6 gallon tank arangement?

  

 Mike Welch

  

 PS  I'm putting together the incidences I have, emailed in a bit.

  

 Do Not Archive





   

 > Subject: Re: fuel system plumbing, aux tank

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: orcabonita(at)hotmail.com

 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:19:23 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>

 

 John,

 

 If I turn on the Pump before the Mains are empty, they will overfill and the excess goes out the vent tube on the bottom on the plane. Other than wasting fuel at almost 4 bucks a gallon, no harm is done. If I forget the valve, the fuel simply wont be drawn by the pump. Not quite as easy as the single large tank in your plane, but for 150 bucks and minimal work, it is a very good solution for those that would like more fuel for a stock MK III setup. 

 

 Kolbs new tank is the best answer, I put my tank in before that was available. I will leave my tank in even when I get the new 18 gallon tank, as that will give me 24 gallons if I ever need it.

 

 The noise proofing I did in my plane is quite effective, and the pump is right behind me. I can hear it in flight, and it gets louder if its left and it stops drawing fuel.

 

 Mike

 

 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

 

 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172214#172214

 

 

 

 

 

 

 &g==================

 

 

 


	


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