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ELTs

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tdawson-townsend(at)auror
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: ELTs

Jose wrote:  

“I have an Ameriking AK450 ELT (121.5/243.0MHz)”  

   

After next January, the satellites are going to stop listening for 121.5 MHz (too many false alerts), and instead only listen for 406 MHz.  So you best bet is to buy a new ELT next year.  

   

Bob wrote:  

  “On the other side of the coin, the probability that this piece  

  of equipment will be a major contributor to your surviving the  

  unplanned arrival with the earth is low. An article published  

  in one of the journals a couple of years ago cited something  

  much less than 10% of recovery situations where the ELT figured  

  strongly in the success of the operation.”  

   

The poor performance of 121.5 MHz probably contributes to that.  The 406 MHz signal will offer better accuracy at determining your position, and do it faster, too.  Remember the accident that spurred closing a loophole that allowed business jets to fly without ELTs:  A Learjet with no ELT went down within 30 miles or so of taking off of Lebanon, NH, but due to snow cover and then dense forest, they didn’t find it for over a year . . .  

   

TDT  

   

Tim Dawson-Townsend  

RV-10 N52KS  

tdt(at)aurora.aero (tdt(at)aurora.aero)   

617-500-4812 (office)  

617-905-4800 (mobile)  

   

      [quote][b]

paula.alvary(at)verizon.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: ELTs

Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in  case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will  probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point,  who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why  I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know  how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it  still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport  Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was  next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF  energy.

  

 --Jose

  

   [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: ELTs

Good Afternoon Jose,

  

 Please understand that I am not an expert on the FARs and I have very  little electronic knowledge, but I do have a question concerning your antenna  installation. 

  

 Is it not true that the ELT is a required piece of requirement? 

  

 Because of that, is it not true that the emission from the ELT must meet  some certain standard? 

  

 The last one that I installed did have specifications concerning the  available signal emission. It said the antenna that came with the set OR an  antennae that met specified standards must be used before the ELT met the  regulatory standards. 

  

 I realize that many regulations do not apply to OBAM aircraft, but I would  not be surprised if the regulations concerning the ELT must be followed.

  

 Any thoughts thereon?

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/21/2008 2:59:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  paula.alvary(at)verizon.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in    case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it    will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in    point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?)    That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best    fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency    services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as    detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply    trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable    chance of radiating some RF energy.

    

   --Jose

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: ELTs

Answer Steve Fossett!

  

 Just the chance of the g switch not working, the antenna  being ripped off is enough to push me to the PLB...Ya sure its another chore to  set it off...buts its #2 on my emergency list.

  

 I also make sure I am talking to ATC when going across the  rocks..I just file an IFR flight plan because I can, but VFR flight following is  as good as long as they will do it for you.

  

 I migth also look into an APHRS datalogger at some  point.

  

 Frank



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Palvary

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:  ELTs

 

 Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in  case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will  probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point,  who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why  I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know  how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it  still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport  Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was  next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF  energy.

  

 --Jose

  

[quote]



ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: ELTs

 	  Quote: 	
		  Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a 

crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will 

probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in 

point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a 

crash?) That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the 

best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency 

services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as 

detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply 

trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable 

chance of radiating some RF energy.


	


    Sounds like you have a realistic understanding of the

    capabilities/limitations for the system. The simple answer

    is, "yes, the thing will radiate . . . and probably no worse

    than some less-than-ideal installations found on some certified

    aircraft." Best yet, it keeps those-who-know-more-about-airplanes-

    than-we-do at arms length . . . for awhile.



        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: ELTs

Oh yes, the 125.5 ELT has to have an RF power output of  just 100mW...PLB's (or 406MHz ELTS) have an output of 5W...I.e a 50 times  stronger signal...Apparently the signal even punches through tree  cover.

  

 Its the emergency equivilent of a big battery drill  compared to a screwdriver...

  

 frank



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde,  Frank George (Corvallis)

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:16  PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:  ELTs

 

 Answer Steve Fossett!

  

 Just the chance of the g switch not working, the antenna  being ripped off is enough to push me to the PLB...Ya sure its another chore to  set it off...buts its #2 on my emergency list.

  

 I also make sure I am talking to ATC when going across the  rocks..I just file an IFR flight plan because I can, but VFR flight following is  as good as long as they will do it for you.

  

 I migth also look into an APHRS datalogger at some  point.

  

 Frank



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Palvary

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:  ELTs

 

 Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in  case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will  probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point,  who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why  I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know  how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it  still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport  Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was  next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF  energy.

  

 --Jose

  

[quote]



ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution







ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

Bill Denton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 97
Location: Chicago, IL USA

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: ELTs

I’m not 100% sure, but if you are talking about an Artex ELT, I believe that the TSO covers the unit AND the antenna. If you don’t install the correct antenna properly, you won’t meet the TSO. And that could lead to an inspection problem.  

   

You might want to check the manufacturer’s website…  

     

Thanks!  

   

Bill Denton  

bdenton(at)bdenton.com  

  

       

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Palvary

 Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:54 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: ELTs  

  

  

     

Admittedly, my 121.5/243.0MHz ELT offers little insurance in case of a crash. Not only is it old technology, but in the best scenario it will probably go undetected for the various reasons that Bob stated. (Case in point, who knows what direction the antenna will wind up in after a crash?) That is why I did not go to the extent of doing the antenna in the best fashion that we know how to do. However, even after emergency services stop listening, it still meets the FAA requirement for an ELT as detailed in the recent EAA Sport Aviation article. My question was simply trying to determine if what I did was next to useless or had a reasonable chance of radiating some RF energy.  

    

   

    

--Jose  

    

   

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mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: ELTs

What was the question??



 	  Quote: 	
		   Answer Steve Fossett!



 Just the chance of the g switch not working, the antenna being ripped off

 is enough to push me to the PLB...Ya sure its another chore to set it

 off...buts its #2 on my emergency list.



 I also make sure I am talking to ATC when going across the rocks..I just

 file an IFR flight plan because I can, but VFR flight following is as good

 as long as they will do it for you.


	




There's a good amount of the western US over which I have flown where the

minimum radar altitude is above 11000MSL.  The MEA on the route between

BOI and TWF is 10000MSL and there aren't any passes to cross; the route

can be comfortably flown at 5500 - and not be even slightly close to

terrain.  Having to climb to 10000 on such a short trip isn't particularly

efficient...  I agree with the philosophy you are proposing however.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I migth also look into an APHRS datalogger at some point.



 Frank




	




Matt-

paula.alvary(at)verizon.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: ELTs

Hi Bob S.,

 [quote]   Because of that, is it not true that the emission from the ELT must meet    some certain standard? 

    

   ------A good point worth considering. I    do not have an anwer nor meter to check the output. Best I can do for now is    just do a tower check on the hour. I do know that my ELT came with a    simple (non-loaded) telescoping antenna (which had broken and dissappeared)    and I think the solid wire antenna I made is hopefully as good as that    one.

    

   Eventually, 406MHz and/or APRS is the way to    go. 

    

   --Jose

   PS-This is the best list ever. Thanks    everyone.

[b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: ELTs

You are correct. All ELTs must meet TSO, and TSO includes antenna spec. 

Even a different brand antenna for ELT does not meet letter of the law. 

And yes, it doesn't matter whether experimental or type certified, both 

are required by reg to have TSOd ELT.



Bill Denton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I’m not 100% sure, but if you are talking about an Artex ELT, I 

 believe that the TSO covers the unit AND the antenna. If you don’t 

 install the correct antenna properly, you won’t meet the TSO. And that 

 could lead to an inspection problem.



 You might want to check the manufacturer’s website…



 Thanks!



 Bill Denton



 bdenton(at)bdenton.com



 *



 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

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