Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

LOG BOOKS
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rickpegser(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

GUYS AND GALS:

   

  I WAS ASKED YESTERDAY TO TO DO A CONDITIONAL INSPECTION ON A EXEC 90 HELICOPTER.  AFTER A REVIEW OF THE LOG BOOKS I WAS UNABLE TO CONFIRM THAT THE 100 HR INSPECTION WAS DONE. AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. IN ADDITION TO THIS ALL, MAINTENANCE  ENTRIES FAILED TO HAVE A DATE OR SIGNATURE. THIS BECAME A PROBLEM SINCE THE CURRENT OWNER IS THE THIRD OWNER AND THE BUILDER IS PRESUMED DEAD. I AM AWAITING A DECISION FROM THE LOCAL FSDO RE-GUARDING THE LOGS AND WILL POST THE STORY AS IT PLAYS OUT. YOU MIGHT NOT BE AN A/P OR IA BUT YOU ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOGS

   

  RICK A+P/IA



        Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  AND A    HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN LANDING GEAR AND A    REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. 	


 

 I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were replaced  where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the first place?

  

 Jim

  

 do not archive



Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and 

repairs are done, NOT for what prompted the repairs.

Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was flipped, 

or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship?

While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no 

reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs.



JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 

 rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:



     AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN

     LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED.



 I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were 

 replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the 

 first place?

  

 Jim

  

 do not archive



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home 

 <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001>.

 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

Look up the N number in the NTSB data base.



http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

 

Scott RV-8a



---

JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

In a message dated 3/21/2008 3:53:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Look up    the N number in the NTSB data base 	


 

 It only goes in if you report it. Even if you did it may not go in. I had a  forced landing from an engine self destruction. When I went to report it to the  FAA (back when I was naive) they weren't interested because it wasn't certified.  Funny thing too; my logbook didn't mention the rebuild and my A&P didn't  want to know either. He just checked that everything was working as it should at  the time of the annual safety inspection and signed it off as  'safe for flight'. Go figure.

  

 do not archive



Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

As he should. The annual condition  inspection is just that. The condition of the aircraft at the time of  inspection, ONLY. 

  

 There's no AD search, damage history  assessment, or anything else,  just "Is it Safe now."

  

 Bruce

  

www.Glasair.org 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

 [quote]   

   --

rickpegser(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

14 CFR §91.417(a) requires that the maintenance record include the date of completion of the work and the signature and certificate number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service.

14 CFR §43.9(a)(4) requires that in addition to the name and certificate number that the kind of certificate held by the person be specified.

   

  this is for all log entries. so if you sign off an oil change with the entry of 25hr no date changed oil and filter no signiture have . fun when you get the ramp check. what i was trying to say the value of our airplane are direcrtly related to the quality of the log books. this is especially true when the next owner has to have an a+p do all of the sign offs.

   

   

  after a long dicusiion with the local fsdo this morning if any log entry is incomplete then it is as if it was never done. cost to repeat inspection 4000.00$ aircraft aquired from estate  previous owner dead. i know every owner wants to claim no damage history, this is a bs statement. every aircraft out there has been damaged in some way so allow the log to reflect this and at prebuy inspection we know where to look to see if the repairs where done right.

   

  ps. when the repair estamate for the exec90 exceeded 30,000 without starting the engine the owner decided to bail on the project. remember that as an owner builder you can certify what ever you want. as an a+p/ia my living is on the line. it will be right no mater the cost. 

   

  rick miller



Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen 



Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and 

repairs are done, NOT for what  prompted the repairs.

Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was flipped, 

or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship?

While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no 

reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs.



JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:

[quote] In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 

 rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:



 AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN

 LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED.



 I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were 

 replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in the 

 first place?

 

 Jim

 

 do not archive



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video       Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

There are  some that believe that all that needs logging is the Annual Condition  Inspection. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can work on an experimental between Annual  Inspections, just how would my next door neighbor auto mechanic sign my log  after he fixed my engine?

  

  

  

Bruce 

www.Glasair.org 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

 [quote]   

   --

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

Bruce Gray wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		        Message      There are some that believe that all that needs logging is the Annual Condition Inspection. Anyone and I mean ANYONE can work on an experimental between Annual Inspections, just how would my next door neighbor auto mechanic sign my log after he fixed my engine?

 	
 That's easy!:

 

 4/12/08      897 TT A/E  Pulled #3 cylinder and replaced all rings, part #  RS-4531.  Reassembled with new cylinder base gasket, part # BG-4983, cylinder head gasket, part # HG-5982A, and pushrod tube gaskets PR-AX45 and BX-45.  (signed) Joe Shmo (that's Bruce's neighbor) 654-32-5678

 

 

 BTW, all the data is bogus, but you get the idea.  Similar format when doing any maintenance such as replacing tires, battery, oil change etc.  Of course, the entries go into the respective engine or airframe logs.   Oh yeah, you should have a prop log too!

 

 Now you can be difficult and just keep notes on a lined pad instead of a standard logbook and be legal ...... but explain that method of record keeping to a prospective buyer.

 

 Linn

 

 [quote]    

    

      

Bruce   

www.Glasair.org   

    

 [b]

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

My eldest  son, who is an A&P/IA got his ticket 17 years ago. When I saw it, it had his  SSN as his license number. I made him turn it back in and get one with a random  number instead. I doubt if my neighbor will give me his SSN. I sure won't give  mine out. 

  

  Call me stupid, but I don't see where the FAR's require  any log entries for experimentals except the condition  inspection. 



  

 Bruce

  

www.Glasair.org 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

 [quote]   

   --

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: LOG BOOKS

I apologize Bruce.  You asked the question, and I provided an answer.  I really don't really give a hoot whether you log your maintenance or not.  As someone else pointed out, the information in your logs is a reflection of your care and feeding of your airplane.  That should be important to a future owner of your airplane, and is an important  yardstick that measures the value of your airplane.  Sorry, I'm not in the mood for a food fight.

 Linn

 do not archive

 

 

 Bruce Gray wrote:

 [quote]      Message      My eldest son, who is an A&P/IA got his ticket 17 years ago. When I saw it, it had his SSN as his license number. I made him turn it back in and get one with a random number instead. I doubt if my neighbor will give me his SSN. I sure won't give mine out. 

    

      Call me stupid, but I don't see where the FAR's require any log entries for experimentals except the condition inspection. 

   

    

   Bruce

      

www.Glasair.org   

    

   [quote]     --

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

Excuse me!

No where did my previous post indicate that a log entry should not be 

signed properly. There simply is zero requirement to say anything about 

what prompted the maintenance or repair. Damage, old age, or whatever. 

The reason for the repair is IRRELEVANT and should NOT be in the 

logbook. Read the regs again. You log what work is performed and what 

parts replaced and sign it appropriately.

A review of the properly logged work done will tell all you need to know 

as to where to look in a pre-buy.  I'll say it again......the incident 

or damage or failure that initiated the work is irrelevant. There are 

many Piper Cubs flying around that little more than the data plate and a 

little of the chrome moly tubing is original.

An inspection of maintenance logbooks should NEVER occur during a ramp 

check, because logbooks should NEVER be in or around the aircraft. They 

should be kept someplace safe, with copies elsewhere. Yes, they can 

request to see logbooks later, but not during the ramp check, as the 

simple answer is the logbooks are not here, they are in a safe.

Also, old oil changes and condition inspections in logbooks, entered 

properly or not are also irrelevant. No record is required to be kept 

after an inspection or maintenance task is repeated. If you did a proper 

annual/condition inspection and logged it properly, all previous 

inspections records can be thrown away(unless desired for sales 

marketing purposes,which has nothing to do with FARs).

Kelly

A&P/IA

RICHARD MILLER wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   14 CFR §91.417(a) requires that the maintenance record include the 

 date of completion of the work and the signature and certificate 

 number of the person approving the aircraft for return to service.

 14 CFR §43.9(a)(4) requires that in addition to the name and 

 certificate number that the kind of certificate held by the person be 

 specified.

 this is for all log entries. so if you sign off an oil change with the 

 entry of 25hr no date changed oil and filter no signiture have . fun 

 when you get the ramp check. what i was trying to say the value of our 

 airplane are direcrtly related to the quality of the log books. this 

 is especially true when the next owner has to have an a+p do all of 

 the sign offs.

 after a long dicusiion with the local fsdo this morning if any log 

 entry is incomplete then it is as if it was never done. cost to repeat 

 inspection 4000.00$ aircraft aquired from estate previous owner dead. 

 i know every owner wants to claim no damage history, this is a bs 

 statement. every aircraft out there has been damaged in some way so 

 allow the log to reflect this and at prebuy inspection we know where 

 to look to see if the repairs where done right.

 ps. when the repair estamate for the exec90 exceeded 30,000 without 

 starting the engine the owner decided to bail on the project. remember 

 that as an owner builder you can certify what ever you want. as an 

 a+p/ia my living is on the line. it will be right no mater the cost.

 rick miller

 */Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>/* wrote:

     Common confusion. Logbooks are for recording what maintenance and

     repairs are done, NOT for what prompted the repairs.

     Who cares if a vertical stab is replaced because the plane was

     flipped,

     or because owner wasn't satisfied with his early workmanship?

     While you can generally guess based on what is repaired, there is no

     reason for the incident to be mentioned with the repairs.

     JFLEISC(at)aol.com wrote:

     > In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:14:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

     > rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:

     >

     > AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN

     > LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED.

     >

     > I'm confused. If the hard landing was not entered and parts were

     > replaced where is the proof that this "landing" ever happened in

     the

     > first place?

     >

     > Jim

     >

     > do not archive

     *

     *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

How about the initial 25-40 hours fly off time?  That must have to go somewhere...

 

 Maybe entires for maintenance, oil changes, etc. aren't required, but I think it's a good idea to document stuff.  Might come in handy for resale or insurance claim or...???

 

 do not archive

 

 Scott

 

 

 Bruce Gray wrote:

 [quote]      Message      My eldest son, who is an A&P/IA got his ticket 17 years ago. When I saw it, it had his SSN as his license number. I made him turn it back in and get one with a random number instead. I doubt if my neighbor will give me his SSN. I sure won't give mine out. 

    

      Call me stupid, but I don't see where the FAR's require any log entries for experimentals except the condition inspection. 

   

    

   Bruce

      

www.Glasair.org   

    

   [quote]     --

JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:13:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  kellym(at)aviating.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  this is    for all log entries. so if you sign off an oil change with the 

 	  Quote: 	
		   entry    of 25hr no date changed oil and filter no signiture have . fun 

 when    you get the ramp check. what i was trying to say the value of our 

    airplane are direcrtly related to the quality of the log books. this 

    is especially true when the next owner has to have an a+p do all of 

    the sign offs.

  

  

 after a long dicusiion    with the local fsdo this morning if any log 

 entry is incomplete then    it is as if it was never done. cost to repeat 

 inspection 4000.00$    aircraft aquired from estate previous owner dead. 

 i know every owner    wants to claim no damage history, this is a bs 

 statement. every    aircraft out there has been damaged in some way so 

 allow the log to    reflect this and at prebuy inspection we know where 

 to look to see if    the repairs where done right.

	

	


 

 One thing agreed upon; If you are going to put it in the log book then it  should be complete. That said; besides oil changes, why put it in there in the  first place? Value of the aircraft or to see if the repairs were done right?  Nonsense! If a repair was done right vs not needing one at all is highly  subjective as to value, one buyer vs another. Also, it has been my experience  that if it is in writing then it is subject to second guessing depending on  who is reading and or manipulating it. A properly done repair or maintenance  should be indistinguishable from original and in that case, without  documentation, I would say prove it was done so how could it be incorrect. The  FAA doesn't give out awards for outstanding workmanship, their job is  prosecution after the fact so why give them anything to fan the fire. It would  be easier to prove I did something wrong if they could prove I did something in  the first place. If there is no proof I did something its just hearsay or worse  libel. Just my 2 cents.

  

 Jim



Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

As an A&P I've run into these situations, in fact one last month.  Do you honestly think that every airplane you've worked on has the logs correct?  If not, what do you want them to say?  Its your job as an A&P/IA to make sure everything going fwd. from your signature on is mechanically correct and and all AD's complied with (yes they do apply to homebuilts).  Straighten it out and move on.  I can't see for the life of me what the FSDO will do for you, especially if its not in writing from them.

 

Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const 



On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:05 PM, RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com (rickpegser(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]GUYS AND GALS:

   

  I WAS ASKED YESTERDAY TO TO DO A CONDITIONAL INSPECTION ON A EXEC 90 HELICOPTER.  AFTER A REVIEW OF THE LOG BOOKS I WAS UNABLE TO CONFIRM THAT THE 100 HR INSPECTION WAS DONE. AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. IN ADDITION TO THIS ALL, MAINTENANCE  ENTRIES FAILED TO HAVE A DATE OR SIGNATURE. THIS BECAME A PROBLEM SINCE THE CURRENT OWNER IS THE THIRD OWNER AND THE BUILDER IS PRESUMED DEAD. I AM AWAITING A DECISION FROM THE LOCAL FSDO RE-GUARDING THE LOGS AND WILL POST THE STORY AS IT PLAYS OUT. YOU MIGHT NOT BE AN A/P OR IA BUT YOU ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOGS

    

  RICK A+P/IA



        Be a better friend, newshound, and   	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

When did ADs start becoming applicable to experimental homebuilts?  This was asked of EAA and they said no.  Has anyone ever received an AD in the mail for their homebuilt?

 

 Scott

 

 do not archive

 

 

 

 

 

 Bob J. wrote: [quote]As an A&P I've run into these situations, in fact one last month.  Do you honestly think that every airplane you've worked on has the logs correct?  If not, what do you want them to say?  Its your job as an A&P/IA to make sure everything going fwd. from your signature on is mechanically correct and and all AD's complied with (yes they do apply to homebuilts).  Straighten it out and move on.  I can't see for the life of me what the FSDO will do for you, especially if its not in writing from them.

   

 Regards,

 Bob Japundza

 RV-6 flying F1 under const 

   

   On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:05 PM, RICHARD MILLER <rickpegser(at)yahoo.com (rickpegser(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		       GUYS AND GALS:

      

     I WAS ASKED YESTERDAY TO TO DO A CONDITIONAL INSPECTION ON A EXEC 90 HELICOPTER.  AFTER A REVIEW OF THE LOG BOOKS I WAS UNABLE TO CONFIRM THAT THE 100 HR INSPECTION WAS DONE. AND A HARD LANDING THAT RESULTED IN THE REPLACEMENT OF THE MAIN LANDING GEAR AND A REBUILD OF THE TAIL BOOM WAS NOT ENTERED. IN ADDITION TO THIS ALL, MAINTENANCE  ENTRIES FAILED TO HAVE A DATE OR SIGNATURE. THIS BECAME A PROBLEM SINCE THE CURRENT OWNER IS THE THIRD OWNER AND THE BUILDER IS PRESUMED DEAD. I AM AWAITING A DECISION FROM THE LOCAL FSDO RE-GUARDING THE LOGS AND WILL POST THE STORY AS IT PLAYS OUT. YOU MIGHT NOT BE AN A/P OR IA BUT YOU ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LOGS

      

     RICK A+P/IA

     

     

     

     

     

      Be a better friend, newshound, and      	  Quote: 	
		  

	
   

	
 -- 

Scott

http://corbenflyer.tripod.com

Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4

Gotta Fly or Gonna Die[b]

JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  acepilot(at)bloomer.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  When did    ADs start becoming applicable to experimental homebuilts?  This was asked    of EAA and they said no.  Has anyone ever received an AD in the mail for    their homebuilt?

	


 

 I have (in conjunction with the lycoming in my RV-4) but as you say they  become, as my AI also says, strong recommendations rather than rules.

  

 Jim

  

 do not archive



Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

Now that I can agree with.  Recommended, but not required  

 

 Scott

 

 

 JFLEISC(at)aol.com (JFLEISC(at)aol.com) wrote:

 [quote]               In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, acepilot(at)bloomer.net (acepilot(at)bloomer.net) writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  When did ADs start becoming applicable to experimental homebuilts?  This was asked of EAA and they said no.  Has anyone ever received an AD in the mail for their homebuilt?

     	
   

   I have (in conjunction with the lycoming in my RV-4) but as you say they become, as my AI also says, strong recommendations rather than rules.

    

   Jim

    

   do not archive

   

   

   

      Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 -- 

Scott

http://corbenflyer.tripod.com

Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4

Gotta Fly or Gonna Die[b]

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

Yes, I just  recieved an Emergency AD (2008-06-51) from the FAA in the mail. This AD applies  to all RSA 5 and RSA 10 fuel injection servos. Good reading and I'm going to  comply.

  

  

  

Bruce 

www.Glasair.org 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

 [quote]   

   --

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: LOG BOOKS

What can often be lost in the delivery is the intent.  ADs are published by the FAA in the Federal Registry to the entire planet.  Airframe, Engine, Propeller and Appliance ADs are just four examples.  Everyone has access and hypothetically receives notice by that method of circulation even in the deepest parts of Africa within USPS delivery.  

   

Manufacturers of Airframe, Engines, Propellers and Appliances for regulatory and insurance liability reasons send a more structured and easier to read format by USPS to known users of their products.  When a Certificated Engine AD is issued, all of the manufacturers who use the product are obligated to inform the end user.  The end user may just be under some responsibility to address all such appropriate ADs.  

   

As builders, we too often think only of our selves as” End Users” and wait for something by USPS mail to come from “the manufacturer” (like with certificated production aircraft).  As the manufacturer of record, it seems logical we would inform ourselves that an Emergency AD issued on the product we chose to use is now in need of immediate attention.  Emergency ADs tend to get the quicker response.  An Airworthiness “Directive” is not the same as an “Advisory” Circular.  Once litigation begins both requirements can become painfully self evident.  

   

When the Builder/Manufacturer does not understand or have interest in maintaining compliance for further operation under Part 91, that is a personal issue between the Owner/Operator and the “perceived” risk to the non flying General Public.  It is the FAA that protects the General Public. With research, I think you will find the value in knowledge of all appropriate maintenance (both required and recommended) as well as sound and prudent Preventative Maintenance as an Owner/Operator is a great and wise thing.  

   

Then there is the issue of what is required for the Annual Inspection or in our cases “the Conditional Inspection”.  

   

Your question is a great one. Knowing the answer and complying with it is a requirement to operating a civil aircraft (FAR 91) even under Experimental certification.  Attached is an Emergency AD which may well effect some members reading these posts.  They are probably waiting by the mailbox for the letter they have yet to send themselves on the appliance, placed on the engine, placed on the kit assembly of airframe parts, “Installed and placed in service” by Them, which became their pride and joy.  

   

Note: See Attachment  

   

Repairman. Oh yeh, those are the guys who do the Conditionals on those exact airplanes.  Well they will catch the Emergency AD when the time comes.  Now when is compliance with an Emergency AD required?  (See Attachment for 2008-06-51 as an example) Eighteen reports of Loss of engine power and subsequent loss of control of the airplane (often leading in termination of the operator’s life).  Oops, this one is so important it must be done by an FAA-licensed mechanic.  That will leave out all of those Repairmen mentioned above.  When is it effective?  IMMEDIATELY before the next flight operation to protect the General Public.  Attorneys are just standing by… and I though one of them might have answered your post as trained professionals on “Binding Legal Notice”.  

   

Again your question is more important than tagging it with “Do not Archive”.  The notice method was instantly available ON THE INTERNET so don’t wait by the mailbox for this one.  Don’t believe that you can “pen and ink” this logbook entry either.  Go directly to someone you respect to protect yourself and our right to continue to fly.  “This one is a rule, not a recommendation”.  It has now been 10 days since the affected aircraft must cease operation until compliant repairs and proper logbook entries are complete.  

   

Have a great and safe Easter Sunday.  

   

John Cox – professional airline mechanic  

amateur RV-10 builder, A&P /IA, EAA TC, former pilot examiner, pilot  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JFLEISC(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:53 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: LOG BOOKS  

  

       

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, acepilot(at)bloomer.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

When did ADs start becoming applicable to experimental homebuilts?  This was asked of EAA and they said no.  Has anyone ever received an AD in the mail for their homebuilt?  	
  

    

I have (in conjunction with the lycoming in my RV-4) but as you say they become, as my AI also says, strong recommendations rather than rules.  

    

   

    

Jim  

    

   

    

do not archive  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

  

     	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

20080651ad.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

20080651ad.pdf

Filesize:

24.19 KB

Downloaded:

229 Time(s)

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 1 of 3

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum