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Bending 40 thou

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Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: Bending 40 thou

Hi Scratchbuilders,



I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it.



I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.



Do I:

1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?

3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of waste?



How did you do it?



Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's still building?



Thanks in advance,

Glenn.

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

dan(at)hillsgun.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: Bending 40 thou

Hi Glenn: I don't have the answer for your bending questions, but Dave is no

longer building a Zenith. Quite some time ago he sold his project and is now

working on scratchbuilding a Sonex. Dan.



--

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Glen,



You could do what I did.  Ask around at the EAA meetings and everyone you know, ya just never know what ya might turn up.  For instance:



http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=11732&row=434

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

rjscep(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Bending 40 thou

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have been toying with the idea of bending my 

 longerons, which are 12' long. My idea is to make

 a device which has 4 large washers with a radius 

 of 1/8 inch on the outer edge. The washers are in 

 line. So if you run the .040 under the washers 

 with gradual pressure, eventually you will achieve

 a 90 degree bend. These washers will have to be 

 mounted in a jig so you can hold the .040 in place

 Will keep you posted if I have any luck..Do not 

 archive. 

--- Jugle <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net> wrote:
	




 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net>

 

 Hi Scratchbuilders,

 

 I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like

 to know how some of you solved it.

 

 I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans

 at www.ch601.org and it has been working fine for

 thinner material, but today I experimented with some

 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping under the top

 plate and the effort required has begun pulling the

 rivets on the piano hinge.

 

 Do I:

 1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

 2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold

 it firmer?

 3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down

 later... this surely results in a lot of waste?

 

 How did you do it?

 

 Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been

 live for a while. Does anyone know if he's still

 building?

 

 Thanks in advance,

 Glenn.

 

 --------

 Glenn Andressen

 601XL- just started.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171424#171424
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 

 

 

 



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 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List



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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

sky_ranger161

Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 91

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Bending 40 thou

Hi Glenn,

   

  Three things...

   

  1.) I took Dave's original design and beefed it up a little and have been able to bend everything I've wanted to. By beefing up, I mean I made the rivet pitch less in the hinge and put more clamping bolts on it - closer together like you're thinking. I think I remember using stainless steel rivets on mine too. You did that, right?

   

  2.) Another trick I used was to put a full-width strip of duct tape on the inside of both "clamping" surfaces. This gives the clamp a little more grip on the part and keeps it from slipping. The back side of that duct tape is pretty grippy on bare metal.

   

  3.) Definitely make the flange wider than you're bending - especially on the thicker stuff. On big parts or the thick stuff I made my flange 100mm bigger a time or two and trimmed it down - again like you're thinking. It may  be a bit wasteful, but for me it was a lot cheaper and easier than trying to order the part or find someone on the island who can bend it. The "Dave's Brake" I built isn't perfect, but it's gotten me this far and I've been more than happy with the results.

   

  FYI - Dave's 601 site is no longer active, but he's still building and very active in the homebuilding community. Search the archives here for his email address and drop him a line. Hope this helps!

   

  Debo Cox

  Nags Head, NC

  XL/Corvair

  www.mykitlog.com/debo

   

   

   

  

Jugle <glenn(at)eastcoastit.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jugle" 



Hi  Scratchbuilders,



I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it.



I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.



Do I:

1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?

3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of waste?



How did you do it?



Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's still building?



Thanks in advance,

Glenn.



--------

Glenn Andressen

601XL- just started.





Read this topic online  [quote][b]

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Glen,

The way I do it is the low tech way.  I've got a long piece of hardwood with a relief angle cut at the edge and radiused.   I camp the metal between this board and another clamping board on top to the edge of my work bench.  I use lots of C clamps.  I then bend the piece over gradually with a rubber mallet.  I made the rear longerons on my 601XL this way, and I've made a set of shorter bending blocks for my vice for short stuff.  The vice method is even being used for 1/4" material.

I've found I get a straighter bend if I bend the piece before I cut it off the the sheet.



For thinner material I've made own wooden bending brake.



Dan

(plans building 601XL)

http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us



 	  Jugle wrote: 	
		  Hi Scratchbuilders,



I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it.



I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.



Do I:

1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?

3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of waste?



How did you do it?



Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's still building?



Thanks in advance,

Glenn.

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Hi Debo, thanks for the reply.



 	  sky_ranger161 wrote: 	
		       

  3.) Definitely make the flange wider than you're bending - especially on the thicker stuff. On big parts or the thick stuff I made my flange 100mm bigger a time or two and trimmed it down - again like you're thinking. 

	




Well yesterday I went ahead and added an extra bolt between the existing ones, so there are now 13 bolts over the ten feet of my brake, about 250mm apart. 



Then I did a test bend using a piece about 100mm wide, 19 mm flange. Turned out pretty good, but when I trimmed the wide edge back to 19mm to get the doubler to size, I still finished with a slight bow... about 2 to 3mm over the 900mm length. It pushes straight quite easily, but is  it acceptable to let the riveting to the spar flange straighten it out?



 	  sky_ranger161 wrote: 	
		  

    

  1.) I took Dave's original design and beefed it up a little and have been able to bend everything I've wanted to. By beefing up, I mean I made the rivet pitch less in the hinge and put more clamping bolts on it - closer together like you're thinking. I think I remember using stainless steel rivets on mine too. You did that, right? 	


 

I should have been more specific, the rivets aren't actually pulling, the aluminium hinge is bending away from the angle iron. I've ordered a length of steel piano hing to replace it, but if I had left more meat on the material in the first place as you've described, I wouldn't have had the problem.



BTW, I should mention my bench and brake are dead straight, so that isn't causing the bowing.



Glenn

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

In order to make nice straight bends in thicker stock such as .040 you must have a good quality hinge. I used the stainless ones from Air Parts, Inc. 



For your longerons you should make both flanges about 100mm then trim after bending. This is a minimal waste of material and is certainly cheaper than farming out the work.



I have bent every control surface skin, and every piece of channel (including rear spars) using a little creative thinking. For larger pieces, like control surface skins, I always do a test bend with a 2" wide strip of aluminum.



My current version of the brake is 10 feet long. I have 6 bolts. I can bend pretty much anything I need to bend with it.



Yes, I'm still here. I'm building a Sonex (long story). I'm also still a big fan of the 601XL.

Dave Clay

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Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Thanks for your reply Dave.



As I mentioned in one of my other replies, I have ordered some steel hinge to replace my existing aluminium one and have meanwhile been doing some bends starting with wider material, with much better results.



Thanks for the tips, but above all, thanks for the great cheap brake design. Good luck with your Sonex.



Glenn.



 	  TxDave wrote: 	
		  In order to make nice straight bends in thicker stock such as .040 you must have a good quality hinge. I used the stainless ones from Air Parts, Inc. 



For your longerons you should make both flanges about 100mm then trim after bending. This is a minimal waste of material and is certainly cheaper than farming out the work.



I have bent every control surface skin, and every piece of channel (including rear spars) using a little creative thinking. For larger pieces, like control surface skins, I always do a test bend with a 2" wide strip of aluminum.



My current version of the brake is 10 feet long. I have 6 bolts. I can bend pretty much anything I need to bend with it.



Yes, I'm still here. I'm building a Sonex (long story). I'm also still a big fan of the 601XL.

Dave Clay

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Dave isn't building a 601XL anymore????!!!!



 	  dan(at)hillsgun.com wrote: 	
		  Hi Glenn: I don't have the answer for your bending questions, but Dave is no

longer building a Zenith. Quite some time ago he sold his project and is now

working on scratchbuilding a Sonex. Dan.



--

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Check out my 8' brake. I've bent 6' .040 on it. Extra clamps involved, but it didn't budge in the clamp.



http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ashontz&project=277&category=0&log=27195&row=154



Probably the reason it's clamping well is because there's only two clmap points, front and back, instead of the entire flat surface of the fat edge of an L.



 	  Jugle wrote: 	
		  Hi Scratchbuilders,



I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it.



I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.



Do I:

1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?

3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of waste?



How did you do it?



Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's still building?



Thanks in advance,

Glenn.

Jugle

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Victoria, Australia

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

That's a fine brake Andy, unfortunately space dictated what I could use, so Dave's brake on the bench edge is great.



 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  Check out my 8' brake. I've bent 6' .040 on it. Extra clamps involved, but it didn't budge in the clamp.



http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ashontz&project=277&category=0&log=27195&row=154



Probably the reason it's clamping well is because there's only two clmap points, front and back, instead of the entire flat surface of the fat edge of an L.

_________________
Glenn Andressen
601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser parts completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, 70% Fuselage parts made.

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Dude, what happened??? You were one of my "Damn the torpedos!" motivators. Private e-mail me.



 	  TxDave wrote: 	
		  In order to make nice straight bends in thicker stock such as .040 you must have a good quality hinge. I used the stainless ones from Air Parts, Inc. 



For your longerons you should make both flanges about 100mm then trim after bending. This is a minimal waste of material and is certainly cheaper than farming out the work.



I have bent every control surface skin, and every piece of channel (including rear spars) using a little creative thinking. For larger pieces, like control surface skins, I always do a test bend with a 2" wide strip of aluminum.



My current version of the brake is 10 feet long. I have 6 bolts. I can bend pretty much anything I need to bend with it.



Yes, I'm still here. I'm building a Sonex (long story). I'm also still a big fan of the 601XL.

Dave Clay

ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Bending 40 thou

Andy,

Nice....Is see a business opportunity, when are you going into production? 



Art

701 Scratchin'

--- ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Check out my 8' brake. I've bent 6' .040 on it. Extra clamps involved, but it didn't budge in

 the clamp.

 

 http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ashontz&project 77&category=0&log 7195&row=154

 

 

 Jugle wrote:

 > Hi Scratchbuilders,

 > 

 > I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it.

 > 

 > I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working

 fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping

 under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.

 > 

 > Do I:

 > 1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

 > 2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?

 > 3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of

 waste?

 > 

 > How did you do it?

 > 

 > Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's

 still building?

 > 

 > Thanks in advance,

 > Glenn.

 

 

 --------

 Andy Shontz

 CH601XL - Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172072#172072

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Bending 40 thou

Thanks. I should draw up some plans for it and sell them. I liked Larry McFarland's brake, but I didn't have a milling machine or lathe at my disposal at the time, so I designed this one to be made with no more than simple hand tools and a bandsaw. I've beefed it up here and there as I've used it and found it's original design flaws and limitations. I can now bend pretty much anything I need on it now. If you go with the rear spar splice it's all you need for a 601HD, HDS, or XL. I think the materials came to about $350.

 	  ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.ne wrote: 	
		  Andy,

Nice....Is see a business opportunity, when are you going into production? 

Art

701 Scratchin'

--- ashontz <ashontz> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Check out my 8' brake. I've bent 6' .040 on it. Extra clamps involved, but it didn't budge in

 the clamp.

 http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ashontz&project 77&category=0&log 7195&row=154

 Jugle wrote:

 > Hi Scratchbuilders,

 > 

 > I've found a bit of info searching here but I'd like to know how some of you solved it.

 > 

 > I built Dave Clay's bending brake as per the plans at www.ch601.org and it has been working

 fine for thinner material, but today I experimented with some 0.040 flanges. They keep slipping

 under the top plate and the effort required has begun pulling the rivets on the piano hinge.

 > 

 > Do I:

 > 1. Farm those bits out to a sheetmetal shop?

 > 2. Add more bolts between the existing ones to hold it firmer?

 > 3. Bend the material while its wider then cut down later... this surely results in a lot of

 waste?

 > 

 > How did you do it?

 > 

 > Incidentally, Dave's www.daves601xl.com hasn't been live for a while. Does anyone know if he's

 still building?

 > 

 > Thanks in advance,

 > Glenn.

 --------

 Andy Shontz

 CH601XL - Corvair

 www.mykitlog.com/ashontz

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172072#172072

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