Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Rotax 582 Starter Problem?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Rotax 582 Starter Problem?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Rotax 582 Starter Problem?

All,

         Can a starter short a battery? This happened on my Ford van 

and now I think it's happened to my Rotax 582. (Battery appears OK, 

no start, battery stone dead. How did I know the starter failed on 

the Ford Van? Easy, first I replaced the batteries, it wouldn't 

start, then I replaced the starter. The starter fixed it.)

         Today upon start the Rotax starter engaged for maybe 1/2 

second then died. Upon an attempted re-start all I got was a weak 

solenoid click and the battery was down to 9.7 volts. As of Saturday 

afternoon the battery was 13 volts and I had left nothing on since 

then. (I do not know the voltage when I tried to start, but it was 

definitely not 9.7 volts as the 1/2 engagement was much more 

energetic than the subsequent clicks.) I have been fighting a cold 

engine weak start for the past few months, assuming it was ground 

issues. I had reworked the ground system and replaced the battery to no avail.

         First, what fails in the starter to dead short the battery? 

Is there any way to diagnose the starter before I remove it? 

(Resistance checks, etc.) Can I rebuild the starter? Finally, anybody 

know if a 912 starter will work on the 582? (I'm interested in the 

Sky-Tec starter.)



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 Starter Problem?

At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008 -0700, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



All,

         Can a starter short a battery? This happened on my Ford van and 

 now I think it's happened to my Rotax 582. (Battery appears OK, no start, 

 battery stone dead. How did I know the starter failed on the Ford Van? 

 Easy, first I replaced the batteries, it wouldn't start, then I replaced 

 the starter. The starter fixed it.)

         Today upon start the Rotax starter engaged for maybe 1/2 second 

 then died. Upon an attempted re-start all I got was a weak solenoid click 

 and the battery was down to 9.7 volts. As of Saturday afternoon the 

 battery was 13 volts and I had left nothing on since then. (I do not know 

 the voltage when I tried to start, but it was definitely not 9.7 volts as 

 the 1/2 engagement was much more energetic than the subsequent clicks.) I 

 have been fighting a cold engine weak start for the past few months, 

 assuming it was ground issues. I had reworked the ground system and 

 replaced the battery to no avail.

         First, what fails in the starter to dead short the battery? Is 

 there any way to diagnose the starter before I remove it? (Resistance 

 checks, etc.) Can I rebuild the starter? Finally, anybody know if a 912 

 starter will work on the 582? (I'm interested in the Sky-Tec starter.)


	




    There's not really enough data to tell the whole

    story. Starters can fail to work for a host of reasons

    that include failed battery, loose connections, failed

    starter contactor, worn brushes in starter and even

    shorted windings in starter.



    Killer starters are pretty rare. Modern insulations and

    assembly techniques make for pretty robust motors even

    if they're at the bottom of the price structure for

    similar products.



    Try these tests:  Pull your battery lead terminals

    off, brighten up with wire brush, grease with Vaseline

    and reassemble with max recommended torque on fittings.



    Make sure your battery is topped off. If you don't

    own a Battery Tender or similar device . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Chargers/Schumacher_1562.jpg

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Battery/Chargers/Battery_Tender_Jr.jpeg

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Minder.jpg

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Chargers/Battery_Tender_Plus.jpg



    . . . now would be a good time to acquire one. Walmart used to

    handle the Schumacher 1562 for about $20. An excellent buy.



    If you have access to a battery load tester . . .



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Battery_Testers/HF_Carbon_Pile_Load.jpg



http://www.remybattery.com/images/products/Autometer_Tester_SB-3_LG.jpg



    Load your topped off battery until its terminal voltage

    falls to 9 volts and hold that voltage for 15 seconds.

    At the end of 15 seconds, the ammeter should be showing

    over 300 amps.



    Perhaps a service station would test your battery. A Batteries-

    R-Us store certainly would.



    If you've eliminated the battery as a possible root cause,

    then it's time to dig through the rest of the system. Check

    the terminal voltage at the starter while cranking. 8V is

    about the minimum and if your battery is in good shape and

    close to the engine, 9+ volts would not be unexpected.



    If lower, check voltage drop across starter and battery

    contactors while cranking. If you haven't made up 20'

    clip leads for your voltmeter, now would be a good time

    to do it. I have a couple of long lead-sets for my multimeters

    that allow me to clip onto remote devices and take readings

    while sitting in the pilots seat.



    If all the battery, wiring, connections and contactors

    are good, then it's time to scrutinize the starter more

    closely. An inductive ammeter like



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Test_Equipment/Snap-On_Inductive_Ammeters.jpg



    is really handy for getting a quick look-see at

    current flowing in a wire without disconnecting

    it. The ammeters shown are sold by Snap-On in a set

    of two for about $60. On goes to 600A for starters,

    the other to 100A for alternators.



    If your starter is 'killing' batteries, it's cranking

    draw will be really high for your size engine. Normally,

    I wouldn't expect to see more than 150 amps.



    In all likelihood, your battery is simply gone south

    with loose connections or bad switching running in

    second place. The foregoing suggests that with some

    measurements, it's pretty easy to tell what needs to

    be done before you get out the wrenches or go into

    the swaptronics mode of troubleshooting.



    Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum