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grant.corriveau(at)TELUS.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I had always toyed with the idea of an ejector canopy & emergency chute or whole 

aircraft chute.  	


The original "flip-flop" 601 canopy had several cases of shedding the canopy in flight due to the hinge/latch combo mechanism.  I don't know of any that damaged the tail plane, and the aircraft all remained flyable as far as I know.  In one case, the pilot was enroute to Oshkosh.  He landed, bought a motorcycle helmet with visor, and finished the trip in the "open cockpit."

With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario where it would shed in flight.  Has anyone had an unlatching problem in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts?  I imagine it opens a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.  My only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract the pilot.

My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over accident - especially in water.  I'm going to install a set of "Feathers" VGs which reportedly reduces landing speeds by about 10 knots.  That just might be the difference between staying upright vs. going over onto it's back.

Grant Corriveau

C-GHTF HDS

CAM100

 [quote][b]

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 09:46:39AM -0700, Grant Corriveau wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario  

 where it would shed in flight.  Has anyone had an unlatching problem  

 in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts?  I imagine it opens  

 a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.   

 My only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude  

 changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract  

 the pilot.


	


AMD's POH says the canopy will trail in the slightly open position, but the

aircraft will remain controllable. It recommends slowing down and landing at

the first opportunity, and not allowing oneself to get distracted from

flying the airplane.



 	  Quote: 	
		   My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over  

 accident - especially in water.


	


I'm not sure the risk in water is substantially more than on land...but I do

wonder how to get out of the aircraft if it's on its back with the canopy

intact, or largely so.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC                   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com      http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (FRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

 	  Quote: 	
		   Has anyone had an unlatching problem in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts?  I imagine it opens a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.  

   
	


Back in December Clive Richards sent out the attached report from the UK PFA magazine of an anonymous pilot testing his (pre-XL?) 601 with an open canopy. He attached a safety cord and intentionally unlatched his canopy. Quoting:  

   

“I commenced the test at 3500 ft and 80 knots cruise. I secured the safety cord to the cleat at my elbow with about 1 ft of slack and released the catch. The canopy rapidly popped up about 1 ft at the trailing edge as expected. I then slowly paid out the cord from the cleat and allowed the canopy to rise to a steady state. The canopy adopted a position where the base of the canopy settled to an angle of about 35 degrees to the airflow. Full lateral and pitch control could be maintained but forward speed dropped to about 60 knots and despite increase to full throttle descent was about 300 ft/min. An unexpected problem now presented itself. I was descending quickly and all the strength I could muster with my right arm was only just sufficient to pull the cord down and cleat it progressively. Possibly the slot effect at the front of the canopy open at the front increased the lift (and additionally the gas struts require a cord load of 15 lbs static). I finally, exhausted, got it down to about 6 inches and returned to…”  

   

Craig again. I had a similar experience in an Evektor SportStar. This LSA resembles the 601XL: low wing, front-hinged bubble canopy. One difference is that the canopy is split behind the seats. There is a cross-bar behind the seats:  

   

www.evektoramerica.com/SportStarPlus.htm  

   

I was flying left-seat with my instructor. The canopy popped while we were in the pattern. I would estimate that the gap was well over a foot. While the instructor flew I tried to close the canopy. I wrapped my arm around the cross-bar and used all my weight and strength and could not close the canopy. At best I think I got the gap down to 6-8 inches. Evektor redesigned the latch the next year.  

   

I believe the upward force was generated by lift and not wind under the canopy as it did not decrease as I closed the gap.  

   

-- Craig

canopyopening.pdf

Description:

Download

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canopyopening.pdf

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Downloaded:

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daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

Hi Grant,

 Re the feathers VGs.  My experience is that  stall is reduced by approx 5 mph, not 10 knots.  My HDS 912 now stalls  somewhere between 40 and 45 mph IAS INDICATED.  What the actual AS is I  really don't know.  Would that help on a water flop-in?   Possibly. 

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk  VIII

    [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

I carry a small hatchet in the cabin just in case. It has also come in  

handy for digging the crud out out of tie-down padeyes and driving tie- 

down stakes.

On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:04 PM, Jay Maynard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

> My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over

> accident - especially in water.

 I'm not sure the risk in water is substantially more than on  

 land...but I do

 wonder how to get out of the aircraft if it's on its back with the  

 canopy

 intact, or largely so.

-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

I have had one latch come loose in flight a few of times, never both.  

In all cases, it occurred on takeoff. When one latch lets loose, that  

side of the canopy lifts a couple of inches and makes a lot of noise  

but nothing too startling. On one occasion, I was able to re-latch the  

canopy after pulling the throttle to idle and slowing down, the other  

times I just went around the pattern and landed so I could close it.  

My problem was that I put some weatherstripping under the canopy to  

cut down on drafts. In very cold weather, the stripping got so stiff,  

it was hard to latch the canopy. A couple of times, I thought it was  

latched but one side came loose after takeoff. I have since corrected  

this problem.



On Mar 30, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Grant Corriveau wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   The original "flip-flop" 601 canopy had several cases of shedding  

 the canopy in flight due to the hinge/latch combo mechanism.  I  

 don't know of any that damaged the tail plane, and the aircraft all  

 remained flyable as far as I know.  In one case, the pilot was  

 enroute to Oshkosh.  He landed, bought a motorcycle helmet with  

 visor, and finished the trip in the "open cockpit."



 With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario  

 where it would shed in flight.  Has anyone had an unlatching problem  

 in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts?  I imagine it opens  

 a few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.   

 My only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude  

 changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract  

 the pilot.



 My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over  

 accident - especially in water.  I'm going to install a set of  

 "Feathers" VGs which reportedly reduces landing speeds by about 10  

 knots.  That just might be the difference between staying upright  

 vs. going over onto it's back.


	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an escape tool, e.g., 

 http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm

 mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging upside down by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope you'll never need it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it. 

 Meanwhile, I hope that Grant will post his before and after performance data after he installs his VGs. To reduce  stall speed, Grant might also consider wing root fairings. Klaus Truemper reported an 8 kts (9mph) stall speed reduction (and other performance improvements) when he installed wing root fairings. 

 http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/hidden_drag.pdf

 Terry

 At 02:07 PM 3/30/2008 -0400, you wrote:

 [quote]Hi Grant,

 Re the feathers VGs.  My experience is that stall is reduced by approx 5 mph, not 10 knots.  My HDS 912 now stalls somewhere between 40 and 45 mph IAS INDICATED.  What the actual AS is I really don't know.  Would that help on a water flop-in?  Possibly. 

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

 At 12:04 PM 3/30/2008 -0500, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  AMD's POH says the canopy will trail in the slightly open position, but the

 aircraft will remain controllable. It recommends slowing down and landing at

 the first opportunity, and not allowing oneself to get distracted from

 flying the airplane.

 > My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over  

 > accident - especially in water.

 I'm not sure the risk in water is substantially more than on land...but I do

 wonder how to get out of the aircraft if it's on its back with the canopy

 intact, or largely so. 	

 Terry Phillips

 ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

 Corvallis MT

 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings

 http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/     [quote][b]

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

RE: Ditching - A fixed gear aircraft will likely turn over upon contact with the water and then return to a nose down attitude while air seeps out of the wings and fuselage.  While unlatching the canopy prior to ditching might be a good idea,  I don't think I would jettison it.  It will offer some protection to the occupants in the event of a controlled ditching.  If unlatched, once the plane semi-rights itself it should be easy to open.  If the airplane sinks rapidly the bubble of air within will lift open an unlatched canopy.



The pilot of a piper cherokee that ditched in Lake Michigan had time to step out on the wing and use his cell phone to call 911.  Unfortunately he didn't have a life jacket and perished after the plane sank into Lake Michigan, about 3 miles off Milwaukee.  I saw underwater video of it showing it simply sitting upright on the bottom of the lake.



Tim

do not archive

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

I remember that incident. NTSB Identification: CHI05FA180. He went  

down in Lake Michigan just before midnight on April 25. A life jacket  

probably wouldn't have saved him but it would at least have made it  

possible to recover his body.  If you go into that lake at that time  

of year, if you aren't rescued in about half an hour, you probably  

won't survive. That water is COLD. Even in the summer, it doesn't get  

very warm. If you don't have a life raft, your chances of surviving a  

ditching in any the great lakes is pretty slim if you don't get  

rescued quickly.

On Mar 30, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Tim Juhl wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 RE: Ditching - A fixed gear aircraft will likely turn over upon  

 contact with the water and then return to a nose down attitude while  

 air seeps out of the wings and fuselage.  While unlatching the  

 canopy prior to ditching might be a good idea,  I don't think I  

 would jettison it.  It will offer some protection to the occupants  

 in the event of a controlled ditching.  If unlatched, once the plane  

 semi-rights itself it should be easy to open.  If the airplane sinks  

 rapidly the bubble of air within will lift open an unlatched canopy.



 The pilot of a piper cherokee that ditched in Lake Michigan had time  

 to step out on the wing and use his cell phone to call 911.   

 Unfortunately he didn't have a life jacket and perished after the  

 plane sank into Lake Michigan, about 3 miles off Milwaukee.  I saw  

 underwater video of it showing it simply sitting upright on the  

 bottom of the lake.



 Tim

 do not archive


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

"A couple of times, I thought it was 

latched but one side came loose after takeoff. I have since corrected 

this problem."

OK Bryan--how did you fix the problem?  

  

 I also had one latched side of the canopy unlatch on takeoff a couple of times. Just slowed down ,stayed in the pattern and landed to relatch it. Also probably the result of weatherstripping.

 >From a safety point of view I do not want to put and lockable devices inside that can not be accessed from the outside in case of the need for external help. 

  

 George May

 601XL 912s

Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real peopl?source=text_watchcause' target='_new'>Learn more.  [quote][b]

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

Bryan is absolutely correct.  The stupid thing is that he ran out of gas about three miles short of land.  A lesson to us all.



I've spent a lot of years scuba diving in the great lakes and produced a number of video documentaries and two books on shipwrecks.  A friend of mine survived the sinking of a freighter in a storm in 1966  and endured 38 hours of freezing temps on an open raft clad only in boxer shorts, a peacoat and lifejacket.  He was the only survivor of a crew of 29, but he survived.  I try to avoid crossing large expanses of water when the water temps are below 60Â° and when I do cross I pick my routes carefully, grab plenty of altitude, wear my lifejacket  and have a communications plan.  Those of us who live in Michigan have to deal with water when traveling any direction but south 



Tim



do not archive

Do not archive

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

I removed the weatherstripping from between canopy frame and the cabin side rails that was making it difficult to close. Now it closes easily. I temporarily put some weather stripping on the side rails so that it butts up against the canopy. This seals out the drafts without  requiring the strip to be squeezed in the gap. I am still looking for a more permanent solution. I am thinking of a weather strip that attaches to the inner side of canopy rail with a flap that sticks down and inward that will butt up against the cabin side rail. Air leaks out through the gap so the suction should help this arrangement seal up. 

On Mar 30, 2008, at 6:17 PM, george may wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  "A couple of times, I thought it was 

latched but one side came loose after takeoff. I have since corrected 

this problem."

OK Bryan--how did you fix the problem?  

 

I also had one latched side of the canopy unlatch on takeoff a couple of times. Just slowed down ,stayed in the pattern and landed to relatch it. Also probably the result of weatherstripping.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From a safety point of view I do not want to put and lockable devices inside that can not be accessed from the outside in case of the need for external help. 

 
	




	


 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.



 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

Many yrs ago I was on base to 36 at OSH when a guy called in a mayday while 

over the lake, they gave him a straight in on 27 ,  I couldn't let that pass 

so I extended my base, climbing and turning toward the end of 27 so I might 

see him highlighted against the water.  Picked him up about 10 seconds 

before he hit.  boats were moving toward him before he even hit the water, 

all 4 folks got out safely.  they had gone non-stop from New York in a 

Cessna of some variety and got within 400 yrds of the shore before the 

engine ran dry of gas.   That's REALLY making an entrance.

John




Bryan is absolutely correct.  The stupid thing is that he ran out of gas 

about three miles short of land.  A lesson to us all.

jim.lanier(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

While getting my first look at a factory built XL, the instructor's 

first words about the craft were that the latch is a poor design and 

problematic.

The discussion of the latch on this list tend to confirm this as a problem.

When I get to that point in my build, I will certainly look into this 

and possibly find a simple and reliable solution. I recall one aircraft 

that I have flown where you reach in through the window vent to get 

access to the internal latch. (Kind of like an old MG  )

Jim

Grant Corriveau wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  >

> I had always toyed with the idea of an ejector canopy & emergency 

> chute or whole

>

> aircraft chute. 

>

 The original "flip-flop" 601 canopy had several cases of shedding the 

 canopy in flight due to the hinge/latch combo mechanism.  I don't know 

 of any that damaged the tail plane, and the aircraft all remained 

 flyable as far as I know.  In one case, the pilot was enroute to 

 Oshkosh.  He landed, bought a motorcycle helmet with visor, and 

 finished the trip in the "open cockpit."

 With a forward-hinged canopy I find it hard to imagine a scenario 

 where it would shed in flight.  Has anyone had an unlatching problem 

 in flight and can tell us how the canopy reacts?  I imagine it opens a 

 few inches and simply floats at that position in the slip-stream.  My 

 only concern would be how it might move with power and attitude 

 changes - that it might get into a fugoid of some sort and distract 

 the pilot.

 My only serious concern with this canopy is in case of a nose-over 

 accident - especially in water.  I'm going to install a set of 

 "Feathers" VGs which reportedly reduces landing speeds by about 10 

 knots.  That just might be the difference between staying upright vs. 

 going over onto it's back.

 Grant Corriveau

 C-GHTF HDS

 CAM100

 *

 *

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

Bryan

 Thanks for the reply--been looking at some similar fixes myself. Will let you know if they are successful

  

 George may

  

 do not archive

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:07:32 -0400



I removed the weatherstripping from between canopy frame and the cabin side rails that was making it difficult to close. Now it closes easily. I temporarily put some weather stripping on the side rails so that it butts up against the canopy. This seals out the drafts without  requiring the strip to be squeezed in the gap. I am still looking for a more permanent solution. I am thinking of a weather strip that attaches to the inner side of canopy rail with a flap that sticks down and inward that will butt up against the cabin side rail. Air leaks out through the gap so the suction should help this arrangement seal up. 

 On Mar 30, 2008, at 6:17 PM, george may wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   "A couple of times, I thought it was 

latched but one side came loose after takeoff. I have since corrected 

this problem."

OK Bryan--how did you fix the problem?  

 

I also had one latched side of the canopy unlatch on takeoff a couple of times. Just slowed down ,stayed in the pattern and landed to relatch it. Also probably the result of weatherstripping.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From a safety point of view I do not want to put and lockable devices inside that can not be accessed from the outside in case of the need for external help. 

 
	




	


   -- 

 Bryan Martin

 N61BM, CH 601 XL,

 RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

 do not archive.

 

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  



arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	
Test your Star IQ Play now!  [quote][b]

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: Canopy issues and VGs

I fly out of Marathon in the Florida Keys.  Probably 95% of my flying is over water.  Fortunately, the water is usually warm and shallow.  But, I know several people who fly out of here who have ditched, we talk about it at EAA safety meetings, and I think about it a lot. 

   

 Initially, my thought was that if I had to ditch I would open the canopy before ditching and hope that it flew forward and departed the airplane during deceleration.  Then, inadvertently, I flew twice with the passenger side latch not securely closed to the second "click."  (Always happens with new passengers who don't understand the need for "two clicks" on their side.  Usually big guys who I can't see or reach behind to check the latch myself.  That one small opening increases wind noise and tries to suck their shirts outside.  

   

 So, I put myself in the scenario of a dead engine, going through the restart drill, looking for "thin water",  dialing 7700, saying something on 121.5, and trimming for best angle of glide.  Now, as I'm trying to stall with the wheels a few inches over the water I'm going to add noise, wind, a nose down attitude, and tons of drag by popping the canopy?  Something I've never practiced? Duh!   Popping the canopy is something that initially sounds good, but after thinking about it my position is that it adds too many unpracticed variables, (drag, changed attitude, noise, strange wind) to an already stressful operation.  It goes from smart to dumb.  

   

 A valuable lesson that EVERYONE who has ditched repeats over and over is that you only take with you what you have on you.  Yes, it gives you a sense of well being to have those $11.95 orange life vests in the back.  It makes you feel good to have the crash axe "secured"  (a heavy object "secured"against the G-force of a ditching?  Ha!) someplace.  But, what the folks who have been there and done that say is that if you don't have it on your body, then you don't have it.

   

 My passenger and I always wear the "suspender" type life preserver. (No, they ain't heap!)  I have a SPOT satellite personal tracker (yes, it is waterproof) attached to it.  On my belt I have a dive knife with a strong heavily serrated blade.  Other folks around here fly with a "belly bag" holding a personal EPIRB, a big Leatherman, and whatever else makes them comfy.  

   

 We have video of a news helicopter circling over a ditched airplane here.  The two pilots are in life preservers floating near the semi-submerged low wing airplane.  Even with orange life preservers, they looked awfully tiny from the chopper.  Many of us also include a visual strobe on the life preserver.   

   

 One other thing we hear from the folks who have ditched is that anything in the airplane will be on top of you.  So, look at that nice storage space behind the seats.  See the spare engine oil, the tools, the cans of paint and polish, the old plugs you can't throw away?  They are all going to hit you on the head and then sit in your lap.   

   

 I STILL have not come up with a good baggage compartment net for the 601XL.  HINT:  If you want a little lucrative sideline,  put together a 601XL baggage net kit for retrofit.  (It's too late to put it in during construction!)        

 Having said all that, I will also say that flying over the waters of the Florida Keys is a thrill you should all have!  Smooth and beautiful!  

-- 

Frank Derfler 



-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com

 

- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM



-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com    

 

-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my   www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com 

  [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

What if both of your arms are broken?



[quote="Terry Phillips"]One solution for exiting an overturned 601 is an escape tool, e.g., 



 http://www.geo-tools.com/pick20.htm



 mounted securely in a place where you can reach it when your hanging upside down by your seatbelts. It's like a fire extinguisher--you hope you'll never need it, but, if you do need it, you'll be glad you got it. 

 Terry Phillips

 ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

 Corvallis MT

 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings

 http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/      	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed and with both arms broken.





 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  What if both of your arms are broken?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

I'm just thinkin' I like the sound of some sort of door a lot better than a bubble canopy. A few months ago I had a bad back and could hardly get out of my car, I can't imagine trying to fumble around with two broken arms trying to work a swing stick to break the canopy.



Anybody ever watch World Most Shocking Videos? How about that guy trying to get out of the flaming dirt-track race buggy. That didn't look like too much fun, and his problem was his seatbelt was jammed or something like that.



 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed and with both arms broken.





 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  What if both of your arms are broken?

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Canopy issues and VGs

Ashontz,



What if both of your legs are broken? What if a CH47 doesn't see you on the ramp and lands on top of you? What if gravity were to suddenly reverse itself and you were pushed into the deep reaches if interplanetary space?



I'm really beginning to think that the 601 might not be the plane for you. I've not noticed one feature of the aircraft you like. Not that I can think of any aircraft available at any price that would be as safe as you seem to require.

 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  I'm just thinkin' I like the sound of some sort of door a lot better than a bubble canopy. A few months ago I had a bad back and could hardly get out of my car, I can't imagine trying to fumble around with two broken arms trying to work a swing stick to break the canopy.



Anybody ever watch World Most Shocking Videos? How about that guy trying to get out of the flaming dirt-track race buggy. That didn't look like too much fun, and his problem was his seatbelt was jammed or something like that.



 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Well then you're screwed but only slightly more screwed than if you are stuck in your airplane sitting right-side up in your hanger with the canopy closed and with both arms broken.





 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  What if both of your arms are broken?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

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