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AFS Systems

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Just an FYI for those doing their own panels.  I have just finished wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is the first AFS system I have installed except the AOA.  It is a very easy system compared to some.  It is very similar to a Dynon installation in many ways.  Way easier than the GRT EIS.



do not archive



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 

 [quote][b]

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Jesse,  

   

I am a year away from the EFIS decision. Can you elaborate on the different experience with AFS compared to GRT so that I can make a more informed decision?  

   

Thanks,  

   

Bob  

#40684  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:32 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: AFS Systems  

  

  

   

Just an FYI for those doing their own panels.  I have just finished wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is the first AFS system I have installed except the AOA.  It is a very easy system compared to some.  It is very similar to a Dynon installation in many ways.  Way easier than the GRT EIS.    

   

    

do not archive  

    

         

Jesse Saint  

    

Saint Aviation, Inc.  

    

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)  

    

Cell: 352-427-0285  

    

Fax: 815-377-3694  

  

  

  

   

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bcrnfnp(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Jesse,



Thanks for the heads up.  As usual you come to our aid.  Have any news concerning the new GRT Horizon HX?  Further on the subject of GRT, what IFR GPSs are being used?  



Thanks in advance

Barry Chapman, 91591

RV-9A waitin on da wings



---

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Jesse, before answering Bob’s question.  Will your “just finished wiring” for the AFS 3500 AHRS setup allow for the AFS4500 about to be unveiled next week up the street from you?  

   

Wiring is a biggy.  If yes, then go ahead and answer Bob’s query.  I will wait until after you have an answer.  It is great to watch the products develop and seek their place on the food chain.  These are exciting times.  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:32 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: AFS Systems  

  

   

Just an FYI for those doing their own panels.  I have just finished wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is the first AFS system I have installed except the AOA.  It is a very easy system compared to some.  It is very similar to a Dynon installation in many ways.  Way easier than the GRT EIS.    

   

    

do not archive  

    

           

Jesse Saint  

    

Saint Aviation, Inc.  

    

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)  

    

Cell: 352-427-0285  

    

Fax: 815-377-3694  

  

  

    

   

  [quote]   [b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

I don't know the answer to that yet, but if AFS is half as smart as they appear to be, it will be the same or very similar wiring.  Dynon's wiring for their D-180 is the same as for the D-100 and D-120 combined, and the D-100 and D-120 have the same wiring as the D-10/D-10A's.  You know what assuming does, but let's hope it will be the same or very similar wiring.  The one thing I know about the 4500 is that they will fit into trays instead of having the connectors attach directly to the back of the EFIS or EMS.  I just got the paperwork from Rob that they will be giving out at Sun-N-Fun and it looks fantastic.  Market share is definitely going to be moving in their direction, IMHO.



As far as Bob's question, I have only worked with the GRT EIS, not the EFIS, so I won't/can't speak to that.  My main memory of the recent wiring of the EIS is all of the specific resistors that need to be wired in line with the different sensors and the number of wires that have to be run to multiple places for the excitation voltage for sensors.  On GRT's behalf, I got the impression that they have a new EIS coming out that will eliminate some of this.  Also, the GRT allows you to use a lot more different types of senders and to calibrate the system to read them, but for most of the people on this list, I don't think that is as big of a deal since most are building new planes and buying new sensors, not trying to retrofit.

On the Sun-N-Fun note, I will plan to be there all week except Sunday, probaby.  By that time I will be pretty tired, especially since I am just getting back home from Ecuador the day after tomorrow, and also because my wife is due with baby #5 in 3 weeks (please no comments on how close I am cutting that, as I already know it - but since she will be with me at Sun-N-Fun, we may end up having the midwife just come to the camper as long as the labor doesn't run into the curfew hours  ).  I will try to send reports on any new offerings or surprises or great show specials.  I don't know if we can expect an Auto Pilot offering from Dynon yet or if we have to wait until OSH.  Who knows what Garmin, TruTrak, etc. might have up their sleeves.

do not archive



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 



On Apr 2, 2008, at 6:33 PM, John W. Cox wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Jesse, before answering Bob’s question.  Will your “just finished wiring” for the AFS 3500 AHRS setup allow for the AFS4500 about to be unveiled next week up the street from you?



 Wiring is a biggy.  If yes, then go ahead and answer Bob’s query.  I will wait until after you have an answer.  It is great to watch the products develop and seek their place on the food chain.  These are exciting times.



 John



 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:32 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: AFS Systems

 Just an FYI for those doing their own panels.  I have just finished wiring in a dual AHRS Advanced Flight System setup, which is the first AFS system I have installed except the AOA.  It is a very easy system compared to some.  It is very similar to a Dynon installation in many ways.  Way easier than the GRT EIS.



 

do not archive

 Jesse Saint



Saint Aviation, Inc.



jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)



Cell: 352-427-0285



Fax: 815-377-3694





 

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 [quote][b]

RobHickman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Exact same wiring and connections........

  

 Everyone is under a gag order until Sun-n-Fun, so don't even try calling  

  

 -Rob

  



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Rob,



I wasn't going to spill the beans, but I just responded to the beans spiller.

do not archive



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 



On Apr 2, 2008, at 7:46 PM, RobHickman(at)aol.com (RobHickman(at)aol.com) wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    Exact same wiring and connections........

  

 Everyone is under a gag order until Sun-n-Fun, so don't even try calling 

  

 -Rob

  



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

exciting news! 

 please tell when we can get more info off the web since I am not going to  be able to see it (at) SnF, maybe you might give us a first hand review after you  get the gag off? 

 Pascal

  

 [quote]   ---

RobHickman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

We will have a new web site up on Tuesday morning.

  

 -Rob

  

  

  



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

RobHickman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Also....

  

 Autopilot

  

 I  just landed from testing our new autopilot GPS steering, it works really good.  We have some minor adjustments to do and then it should be ready for our beta  testers.   You might even be able to  fly home from Sun-n-Fun with it 



It currently follows the bugs  or NAV CDI (GPS, VOR, or ILS) 



To fully use the interface you  will need an Autopilot that supports GPS steering, lateral and vertical. I have  a Digitrak IIVSGV in my RV-4 and RV-10.



You will not be disappointed!!,  it will be worth the wait.

  

 Weather

  

 We  have XM weather!!  It looks really good on the map screen.

  

 Rob  Hickman

 Advanced  Flight Systems

  



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

flywrights(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Awesome!  Stein told me to wait on the GDL-69A for your unit.  I'll be back in commo with him to add your box to my panel as soon as he can get one.  Is the autopilot steering just a software upgrade? 

  

Rob Wright 

#392 

Steinair AFS 3500/Garmin/TT AP-100 panel 



 ---

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: AFS Systems

Jesse or anyone who has seen the AFS booth at  SnF;

 I Checked out the AFS site to review the new DECK, looks  like a faster CPU, better resolution, extra knob and a joystick but  otherwise the same software as the 3500.

 Am I missing something to merit the extra $1700 price  tag??

 Can you send a review of thoughts between the 3500 and the  DECK (4500)?

 Thanks!

 Pascal

 [quote]   ---

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: AFS Systems

I spent some time with Rob this morning.  The screen on the 4500 is very nice.  It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give more glare in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to see.  It is about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I remember correctly.



According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although you get get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500 because of the joystick and extra knob.  However, with the faster processor (which may become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be able to offer more things like the synthetic terrain, etc.  They didn't have their approach plates demo working this morning, but it should be this afternoon Rob said.  It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight planning stuff between the AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496.  They also don't have the weather up and running yet here, but should tomorrow, I think he said.  I will be stopping back by.  They currently only have Nexrad and one other thing (I think the METARS/TAFS) setup, but are working on the rest.

So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob this morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob and the joystick so far.



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 



On Apr 8, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Pascal wrote:[quote]Jesse or anyone who has seen the AFS booth at SnF;

I Checked out the AFS site to review the new DECK, looks like a faster CPU, better resolution, extra knob and a joystick but otherwise the same software as the 3500.

Am I missing something to merit the extra $1700 price tag??

Can you send a review of thoughts between the 3500 and the DECK (4500)?

Thanks!

Pascal

[quote]---

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: AFS Systems

Thanks Jesse for the review, my mistake on the price it is  indeed $1500 more.

  

 Pascal

 [quote]   ---

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I’m attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the best platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without requiring future hardware updates.  Both have processor updates and both have graphic enhancements.  However, I’m having difficulties locating any information that allows an objective comparison.  

   

If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF, inquiring minds want to know.  All that can be found on their web sites is marketing data sheets.  It sure would be nice to get engineering specs.  Since that’s not likely either, I would be interested in hearing any subjective evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.  

   

Thanks,

 bob  

   

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

 Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:04 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AFS Systems  

  

  

   

I spent some time with Rob this morning.  The screen on the 4500 is very nice.  It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy screens give more glare in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is easier to see.  It is about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if I remember correctly.    

   

    

According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff, although you get get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500 because of the joystick and extra knob.  However, with the faster processor (which may become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be able to offer more things like the synthetic terrain, etc.  They didn't have their approach plates demo working this morning, but it should be this afternoon Rob said.  It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight planning stuff between the AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496.  They also don't have the weather up and running yet here, but should tomorrow, I think he said.  I will be stopping back by.  They currently only have Nexrad and one other thing (I think the METARS/TAFS) setup, but are working on the rest.  

    

   

    

So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as stated by Rob this morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra knob and the joystick so far.  

    

         

Jesse Saint  

    

Saint Aviation, Inc.  

    

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)  

    

Cell: 352-427-0285  

    

Fax: 815-377-3694  

  

  

  

   

  

      [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

This is a perfect question for Stein of SteinAir  or Dewey Conroy of Pacific Coast Avionics.  They are probably both taking all kinds of orders and will address this after returning.  Many inquiring minds want to know exactly these questions.  

   

I would like to see an EFIS system which can annunciate remotely mounted and controlled avionics without taking the financial dive with the Garmin G900X national debt decision.  I am impressed with Robin’s purchase but it is too rich for my blood.  Synthetic Vision, HITS, Chartview, SafeTaxi, Terrain, Traffic and Weather with the capability to go IFR.  Vertical Autopilot GPS steer with the AFS 4500 is a great start.  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler

 Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:30 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: AFS Systems  

  

   

As both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I’m attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the best platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without requiring future hardware updates.  Both have processor updates and both have graphic enhancements.  However, I’m having difficulties locating any information that allows an objective comparison.  

   

If either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF, inquiring minds want to know.  All that can be found on their web sites is marketing data sheets.  It sure would be nice to get engineering specs.  Since that’s not likely either, I would be interested in hearing any subjective evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.  

   

Thanks,

 bob  

   

      [quote][b]

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

This does not answer your very good question, but, keep in  mind that Rob is supplying and thus receiving support from Honeywell.  He  is also the supplier to the Glasair TWTT program.  Both imply a strong  company and product.  Not sure what connections GRT has, beyond  themselves.  Both have excellent reputations for product and service.   Rob is not likely to come out with HITS, since Honeywell has investigated that  and dismissed it as not worth it, for whatever reason.  The HITS for GRT is  not the same as the HITS for Chelton.  Not even sure what the GRT HITS is,  but I don't think it can be classified as true HITS.  You are the  integrator (aka Garmin 900), so look closely at how these utilize and talk to  autopilot, GPS, Nav/Com, traffic data.  Also, if IFR, what do they  have relative to charts, plates, updates, costs. etc.  Who supplies their  AHARS and what is the testing that goes into the respective units.  I  agree, it certainly would help one of them or both to have a more detailed  comparison of what they offer, and how the equipment is superior in terms of  actual flying.  

  

 do not archive



 [quote]         From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob    Leffler

Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:30 PM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: AFS    Systems

   

      

As    both GRT and AFS leap frog each other with features, the question I’m    attempting to answer is which platform (Horizon HX or AFS 4500) has the best    platform for implementing all the new software enhancements without requiring    future hardware updates.  Both have processor updates and both have    graphic enhancements.  However, I’m having difficulties locating any    information that allows an objective comparison.   

    

If    either company is sharing more detailed information and SnF, inquiring minds    want to know.  All that can be found on their web sites is marketing data    sheets.  It sure would be nice to get engineering specs.  Since    that’s not likely either, I would be interested in hearing any subjective    evaluations of these units by anyone at SnF.   

    

Thanks,

bob   

    

          

From:    owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse    Saint

Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:04 PM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AFS    Systems



   

    

I spent some time with Rob this morning.  The screen    on the 4500 is very nice.  It is glossy, and although I have seen glossy    screens give more glare in sunlight, Rob says that in their testing it is    easier to see.  It is about 1,000 nits, whereas the 3500 is about 500, if    I remember correctly.      

 

      

According to Rob, all of the units still do the same stuff,    although you get get to some features easier and more quickly on the 4500    because of the joystick and extra knob.  However, with the faster    processor (which may become available on the 3500 as an upgrade) they will be    able to offer more things like the synthetic terrain, etc.  They didn't    have their approach plates demo working this morning, but it should be this    afternoon Rob said.  It's pretty sweet how you can cross-feed flight    planning stuff between the AFS and a Garmin 430/530 or even a 396/496.     They also don't have the weather up and running yet here, but should    tomorrow, I think he said.  I will be stopping back by.  They    currently only have Nexrad and one other thing (I think the METARS/TAFS)    setup, but are working on the rest.

      

 

      

So, in answer to your question, the $1,700 (or $1,500 as    stated by Rob this morning) difference is the screen, the processor, the extra    knob and the joystick so far.

      

             

Jesse    Saint

      

Saint    Aviation, Inc.

      

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

      

Cell:    352-427-0285

      

Fax:    815-377-3694

   

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: AFS Systems

Well...I'm an  AFS 3500 owner...I saw GRT's new display today with synthetic vision and terrain and it looks SWEET. The leap frogging continues, anyone who strayed from GRT initially (me included) for the simple fact it was low resolution..should re-examine that now. But that's today...tomorrow's another day. 

Rick Sked 

  



---

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