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WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: 2 strokes

In a message dated 4/3/2008 5:14:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  donghe(at)one-eleven.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     With the saw and carb properly adjusted on the recommended 50:1 ratio    fuel mix (remember adjustable jet carbs?) we would run the saw at full RPMS    and let the CHT stabilize...then shut it off, dump the fuel and fill it from    the next can...at 40: 1 and repeat...this run showed a higher CHT...then we    would repeat and do it again with the 25:1..which showed even higher CHT. I    can remember some of those old timers accusing us of trying to trick    them...but after this demonstration most of them finally got it.

Generally    we would then spend a half a day trying to explain the reasons this happens,    which I wont go into here, but rest assured...MORE oil in the mix is NOT    better.

    

   Don G,

    

   You probably know better than I, but my thinking is    that the reason that more oil is not better, is because it makes the    air/fuel mixture leaner.  More oily yes.  But more oil means    there is less gas being mixed with the incoming air, thus a leaner mixture    occurs, which can lead to higher EGT and the dreaded seizure.

    

   By the way, I used to ride a Zundapp 2-stroke motorcycle    back in the 1950's which called for a 20:1 ratio.  And Yamaha TD-1 road    racers of that same era used a 16:1 ratio.  I guess better metals and    oils are the reason for allowing 50:1 ratios nowadays.     

   Bill    Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon  NJ

	




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  [quote][b]

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Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: 2 strokes

Dana, yes sir, you understand it...and you bring another valid point. Entirely correct. another of many reasons.



And Bill You have it to...more is not better for several reasons.



And as previously mentioned... it make carbon because oil burns at with a much slower flame front..so it does not get all burned in one rev..leaving oil on the hot piston that continually builds up and just cooks.



So, in order of sequence the first thing bad that is the engine runs at a hotter temp than normal...

.then the carbon builds up on the piston and in the progresses to the ring grooves...

then the oil starts burning a varnish like brown on the sides of the piston, there by displacing the space for that ever important oil film....and pretty soon....seizure.... from too much oil in the fuel mix.



And just so you guys and gals get the perspective, back in those days I was working for the chainsaw company..(late 80's)..the component that had highest need for lubrication on those engines was the ball bearings on the crank...then the next was the wrist pin roller bearings....they needed much more lubrication than the piston skirt....we experimented back then with sealed bearings on the crank and ran very successfully on 150: 1 fuel oil mix and that was all the piston skirt needed.  



When we changed to 50:1 it was because our bearing vendor brought us new bearings that needed less lubrication.

Coincidently....the same design technology era of the Rotax 2 cycle engines we fly behind....or in front of..... today

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_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: 2 strokes

Don Soooooooo bottom line if it gets too much oil we get carbon Build up followed by a seizure .. Not enough oil we are too lean Hi temps then  followed by seizure ... 

  Orrrrrrrr we get it just right and fly forever  till we ware  out the motor...

  

 

  You ever feel like were just dancing on the  point of a Needle? hahaha 

  

 

  Mark

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

 --

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GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: 2 strokes

In a message dated 4/3/2008 5:14:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  donghe(at)one-eleven.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Generally we would then spend a half a day trying to explain the    reasons this happens, which I wont go into here, but rest assured...MORE oil    in the mix is NOT better. 

If you want to split hairs, Since all    manufacturers calculate a safety margin for recommended mix...a little less is    actually safer then a little more...but stick with recommendations from the    manufacturer. 



We engineers that work for engine companies dont    calculate these ratios haphazardly believe me, because for us, its a matter of    dollars spent on warranty claims...and the reputation of our    products.



--------

Don G.

Central Illinois

Kitfox IV    Speedster

Luscombe 8A 	


 

 D



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  [quote][b]

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_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: 2 strokes

In a message dated 4/3/2008 5:14:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  donghe(at)one-eleven.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Generally we would then spend a half a day trying to explain the    reasons this happens, which I wont go into here, but rest assured...MORE oil    in the mix is NOT better. 

If you want to split hairs, Since all    manufacturers calculate a safety margin for recommended mix...a little less is    actually safer then a little more...but stick with recommendations from the    manufacturer. 



We engineers that work for engine companies dont    calculate these ratios haphazardly believe me, because for us, its a matter of    dollars spent on warranty claims...and the reputation of our    products.



--------

Don G.

Central Illinois

Kitfox IV    Speedster

Luscombe 8A 	


 

 Don, aren't you the Honda engineer that used to keep us on our toes about 2  cycles....what happened to you and I don't see any Kolbness in your  signoff?.....eh, wha?? Oh, I think I remember you sold your Kolb as you built  your Kitfox... 

 I always appreciated your well informed threads.

  

  

 George Randolph

 Firestar driver from the Villages, Fl



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  [quote][b]

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_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: 2 strokes

HI George....Guilty as charged I guess,,,on both counts..No Kolb in the hanger anymore. Ive been spending the winter in my aircraft manufacturing facility (the pole-shed) trying to figure out how to give the KitFox the Visibility I miss so much from a Kolb!!!

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_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: 2 strokes

In a message dated 4/5/2008 12:36:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  donghe(at)one-eleven.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  HI    George....Guilty as charged I guess,,,on both counts..No Kolb in the hanger    anymore. Ive been spending the winter in my aircraft manufacturing facility    (the pole-shed) trying to figure out how to give the KitFox the Visibility I    miss so much from a Kolb!!!   



--------

Don    G.

Central Illinois

Kitfox IV Speedster

Luscombe  8A

	


 

  



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

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_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

knowvne(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: 2 strokes

Don  I hear them Kolb Wannabes are a Real Drag with the fan out front like that  hahaha

  Thanks again for the 2 stroke lessons..  Dare I ask if you recommend AmsOil hahahahha

  

 

  Mark

 

 

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