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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: Firestar Project

Just an update on the Firestar project. Both wings have had the holes patched. One wing has a slight dent in a rib, behind the thickest part on the top. I don't think it will bother anything, and I'm certain no tubes were broken, so I'll leave it alone for now. Both wings are now on the plane, in the folded position. I had the muffler and manifold sandblasred for $20. I welded a "star" crack in the muffler intake elbow with a gasless MIG. Very delicate welding- I think the material is brittle, and thinned out. A lot of exterior pitting- salt air, maybe, as it came from Long Island and was flown frequently over salt water. The manifold was drilled for two more holes, and installed with a total of 6 bolts and new gaskets. The muffler is painted but not installed- too dark last night and raining today. The muffler was rubbing on the fan shroud- I'll have to space it out. The new tires I installed had cracks between the ribs, so Aircraft Spruce immediately exchanged them.  Excellent service from them. I have the option of having a ground adjustable AOL by drilling a couple more holes in the front mounting adapter channels. It could give me a total of 3 available AOL's, if I set the aileron control rods correctly. Has anyone ever tried this? Keep in mind that the wing is 2 1/2" back from standard mounting. The gap seal will have to wait until I figure out whether I will build or borrow a trailer. I still have to set and weld new aileron control rods, switch out the bent landing gear legs, fix the static port on the ASI, and mostly wait out the miserable weather.

    I am also eyeing the original wings for repair and modification, as my living room is empty again. The wife is still tolerating me, but I might be pushing it.

   

                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                    FS l

                                                    Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Busy day today- decent weather, and everybody left me alone. The KXP wings are now fully mounted and aligned. The aileron control rods are cut and welded, and being painted tomorrow. I changed both landing gear legs, as they were mis-matched and both bent. Tomorrow- paint the rods, install and adjust. Tighten and maybe re-locate the fuel pump- the aileron control horn bumps or is really close when folded. Maybe fix the ASI static line, and a little glue on some loose windshield trim. Progress, anyway.

    Dana etc., the Ercoupes I flew - 3 or 4 different ones- all had the bubble canopy and rudder pedals. they were fairly new (in 1968) and had only minor differences. They cost $9700 back then, new. Lessons were $20 an hour- $14 for the plane (with gas) and $6 for the instructor.

   

                                                         Bill Sullivan

                                                        FS l

                                                         Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

At 07:59 PM 3/22/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Busy day today- decent weather, and everybody left me alone. The KXP 

 wings are now fully mounted...


	


How soon do you think until you're ready to fly it?



 	  Quote: 	
		     Dana etc., the Ercoupes I flew - 3 or 4 different ones- all had the 

 bubble canopy and rudder pedals. they were fairly new (in 1968) and had 

 only minor differences. They cost $9700 back then, new. Lessons were $20 

 an hour- $14 for the plane (with gas) and $6 for the instructor.


	


Ah, the good old days!   When I learned to fly in 1976 the C-150 was $15 

wet and the instructor $10.



The only Ercoupe I ever flew (once) was an older (40's?) with no rudder 

pedals.  This was back in the mid 80's I guess.  Didn't care for it all 

that much, but I was in a "real men fly taildraggers" frame of mind... 

hmmm, come to think of it I guess I still am!  



-Dana

--

  Income tax: capital punishment.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Dana- The plane should be ready in a couple of weeks- weather and interruptions permitting. I still have to make a wheel dolly that I can use with the wings folded. I also should find and modify a boat trailer, even if other transport is available. We also have to take a couple of refresher courses. I am usually lucky where my neck is concerned,but I do  manage random acts of pure stupidity, just for variety. I would rather depend on training than memory, and my reading of air maps has been long gone. 

   

  do not archive

                                                        Bill Sullivan

                                                         FS l

                                                        Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Almost done! Here is the official weight- 306.6 pounds. That is 254 dry, plus 24 for the BRS, plus 5 gallons of gas, for a target weight of 308. That is on a new digital scale. I had to weigh it several times, then weighed other stuff for calibration. It weighed the same, every time. I still need a gap seal, but I don't think that will go another pound. Here is what it is: Old model Firestar airframe with the high cockpit sides. Rotax 447 with 2 blade Warp Drive prop. BRS canister under the fuel tank. Full enclosure. Poly-tone paint on the pod, tube, and tail. Five rib KXP wings, modified to fit the cage. Aerothane paint on the wings. Old type skinny LG legs. 15-6.00x6 tires on three piece aluminum rims. Instruments- alcohol compass, ASI, tach, CHT, altimeter. No flaps, flaperons, brakes, pants, etc. Barn door ailerons. The bulk of the weight difference was removal of the padded wood used to keep the tail from moving in transit. I took off several  stray antenna brackets, radio mount, and a strobe and bracket with no power unit. I still have to put in a five gallon overflow on the 10 gallon tank until I change it. Next immediate project is a dolly for moving the folded plane, probably like the one Jack H.built. Still looking for a trailer.

    John- keep the updates coming! I am very interested in the difference with the droop tips. I still have two wings to re-build.

  Good luck with the plane.

                   

                                              Bill Sullivan

                                               FS/KXP

                                           

 [quote][b]

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Firestar project

At 07:24 PM 3/23/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Almost done! Here is the official weight- 306.6 pounds. That is 

 254 dry, plus 24 for the BRS, plus 5 gallons of gas, for a target 

 weight of 308. That is on a new digital scale. I had to weigh it 

 several times, then weighed other stuff for calibration. It weighed 

 the same, every time. I still need a gap seal, but I don't think 

 that will go another pound. Here is what it is: Old model Firestar 

 airframe with the high cockpit sides.


	


That is amazing - the pig I fly weighs in at almost 400 pounds empty 

- it's beefed up, but still......

I like the old Firestar airframe with the high cockpit sides.

Feels good to strap into something solid & gives you something to 

lean on in turns.

(took the back lift strut off - not necessary - unless you are doing 

something stupid)

Sideview.jpg

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_________________
Possum

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Firestar project

At 07:24 PM 3/23/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Almost done! Here is the official weight- 306.6 pounds. That is 254 

 dry, plus 24 for the BRS, plus 5 gallons of gas, for a target weight of 308...


	


Cool!  You gotta be getting psyched to fly it!  I'm looking forward to 

seeing it, too (have you decided where you'll be keeping it yet?).  I was 

skeptical you'd make 103 weight, but it looks like you've done it.



-Dana

--

  Exceeding the legal fun limit on a regular basis

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Possums- That is a lot more FS than I have. Better paint, too. I see wheel pants, brakes(?), double struts- front streamlined- and a radio antenna. Mine has single, round aluminum struts. My windshield just flexes, no hinge. The KXP wings on mine are full length-27' plus. It's hard to see your LG legs, but mine are the long skinny ones with a long taper. I also have a variety of other bent ones, including some short ones with a long taper. I have some spare struts like your front ones- Thom Riddle was interested in them, but they weigh 9# for the pair. 

    Take off all the extras and I bet you would weigh about the same- if you have the 5 rib wings. My spare wing set- the originals- are 5 rib "clipped" wings. Probably close to Firefly wingspan. If I repair and switch out I can add extras. 

   

   do not archive

                                                         Bill Sullivan

                                                        FS/KXP

                                                         Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

At 11:22 PM 3/23/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Possums- That is a lot more FS than I have. I see wheel pants, 

brakes(?), double struts- front streamlined- and a radio antenna. 

Mine has single, round aluminum struts. My windshield just flexes, 

no hinge. The KXP wings on mine are full length-27' plus. It's hard 

to see your LG legs

   Take off all the extras and I bet you would weigh about the same- 

 if you have the 5 rib wings. My spare wing set- the originals- are 

 5 rib "clipped" wings. Probably close to Firefly wingspan. If I 

 repair and switch out I can add extras.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  My windshield just flexes like your's, no hinges too. Brakes - yes, 

double struts - (don't need them) - uless you're are going to do

loops for everybody to watch on "YouTube".
	


The KXP wings on mine are (not) full length-they are 27' 6" with 8 ribs.

No.... I could not weigh about the same.

_________________
Possum

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Firestar project

Possums- You said you have 8 rib wings. Are you counting the ends? Travis told me not to count the ends, only the full ribs in between. Mine are 27'6", 5 ribs, 3 false ribs in between, and 1 false rib outboard of the last rib. I don't know for sure that they are from a KXP, but assume so because of the mounts being 2 1/2" shorter than a newer Firestar. The rear mount is a big, heavy lug that had to be ground to fit the u-joint. I also had to slide it in about an inch, rotate, and re-drill the hole in the inspection panel in order to get the wings straight. This allowed me to saw off about an inch of the very heavy tube on the lugs with no loss of strength. 

   When I first put the wings on, the tips were forward a couple of inches in a "V" shape. I could have extended the front mount- adding weight- or do what I did, cutting weight. I still have to do a CG, but with the Firestar's large gross weight of 725 I think I have a lot of lee way. 

     One thing I don't like that is not a problem for local flying. I need a box or step ladder to put gas in it. The tank is mounted high, and is hard to access with the wings in the flying position. The tank is still 10 gallon, and I will put a limiting tube in the filler, as suggested by someone on the list. At least until I get a 5 gallon. I don't see an easy way to change the tank. Looks like the cage was built around it- a very tight fit. Looks like more Stits work.

    Re: Ceiling. I live at 60 feet MSL, and smoke, and am a former welder. I have never (other than an airliner) been above 2000', other than 1/2 hour on Mt. Washington. I guess I'll keep it slow and low- like me, now pushing 60.

   

                                                        Bill Sullivan

                                                       FS/KXP

                                                        Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: Firestar project

At 07:21 AM 3/24/2008, william sullivan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		     One thing I don't like that is not a problem for local flying. I need a 

 box or step ladder to put gas in it. The tank is mounted high, and is 

 hard to access with the wings in the flying position. The tank is still 

 10 gallon, and I will put a limiting tube in the filler, as suggested by 

 someone on the list. At least until I get a 5 gallon. I don't see an easy 

 way to change the tank. Looks like the cage was built around it- a very 

 tight fit. Looks like more Stits work.


	


As long as you're _absolutely_ certain that you can get the 5 gallon tank 

in, you could cut the old one up to get it out...



-Dana

--

  "Hiking is just walking where it's ok to pee.....

Sometimes old people hike on accident....."

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: Firestar project

At 07:21 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Possums- You said you have 8 rib wings. Are you counting the ends?


	




Mine's all weirded out. Use to have a 5 rib Firestar, but all I got

let of it is the old nose cone, some hardware and the stick.



http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/

_________________
Possum

jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Firestar Project

Hi Bill,



I would just install a filler "down pipe" that limits you to ~5 gals and forget about replacing the tank, if it is still in decent condition.



As long as you can not modify that fill limiter easily while fueling then it should be perfectly legal for part 103. 



Since you have your weight made your in good shape.



I'm the guy with the 15 Gal fiberglass behind seat tank in my UltraStar, and will be doing likewise with a filler "down Pipe" limiter this week to comply with part 103.



Your project sounds very interesting....I'm sure the excitement level is mounting.



A good long strip with open fields all around is probably in order for your first test hops.



Especially since your not sure about the Angle of Incidence and are entering experimental territory.



I would also suggest you get another Kolber to take a good look over your aircraft in detail to make sure everything "looks right".



Looking forward to hearing about your progress.

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Yah, swimming does strange things to the wings...........thinks it's a 

penguin, 'stead of a possum anymore.                   

Lar.                   Do not Archive.



possums wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 07:21 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote:

> Possums- You said you have 8 rib wings. Are you counting the ends?

 Mine's all weirded out. Use to have a 5 rib Firestar, but all I got

 let of it is the old nose cone, some hardware and the stick.



 http://www.mindspring.com/~possums/




	


-- 

Larry Bourne

Santa Fe, NM

www.gogittum.com

www.gogittum.com/blog

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Ray- For now, I am doing what you are- a filler down pipe. Easiest way until next fall. The Palmer, Mass. field looks the best for being local and out of the air traffic. While I need a brush-up on flying, the last air maps I read were written on parchment using berries for ink. I am a little out of date. I could bring it to a friend's farm and get some time in, but unless I get led around I have an excellent chance of becoming an aluminum bug on the windshield of a 757. I have to be patient- It's too cold at ground level, never mind up there with no wood stove. Only a few more weeks...

   

  do not archive

                                            Bill Sullivan

                                             FS/KXP

                                            Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar Project

Bill,

I pulled out my old Firestar plans and took a look.  It looks like you have KX wings.  My plans have two wing versions, a five rib "KX only" and seven rib "KXP only".



The plans show no difference at the rear drag strut fitting between models.  I'm not sure why the fitting was sticking out so far on your wing set.  The plans show the center of the trailing edge end of the hole in the drag strut fitting as protruding 3/4" from the rib.  This would put the end toward the leading edge at just less than an inch.



I have attached a quick (not to scale) sketch of the area to clarify the above.  If you have trouble with the .pdf let me know and I can post it as a jpeg.



You are going to love your plane. Light Firestars are a delight to fly.

Drag strut attach sketch.pdf

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Drag strut attach sketch.pdf

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16.71 KB

Downloaded:

553 Time(s)

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

I made the fill neck limiter today. The hardware store had a long, tapered funnel for $2.49 that was the perfect length. One cut with a hacksaw, then sanded to remove plastic chips, and two minutes with a glue gun converted the ten gallon tank to five gallon. 

    I looked at the vacuum fuel pump bracket on the 447- the aileron horn came awful close when folded. Turns out the bolt holding the bracket was only finger tight! No lockwasher or locknut! Fixed that, but if I had the previous owner's luck I'd buy lottery tickets.

    I started making a tow dolly like Jack Hart did, but mine will have a handle extended parallel to the ground to clear the wings in the folded position. My wings stick out quite a bit past the tail. The wheel/lazy susan assembly is all built, and I am going to use some electrical conduit for the handle. Total cost will be about $20.

    John H.- I think I have better weather. In the forties and  sunny, little wind. Keep reporting, and thanks.

   

                                                  Bill Sullivan

                                                  FS/KX

                                                  Windsor Locks,  Ct.

 [quote][b]

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

In a message dated 3/23/2008 11:25:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Possums- That is a lot more FS than I have. Better paint, too. I see    wheel pants, brakes(?), double struts- front streamlined- and a radio antenna.    Mine has single, round aluminum struts. My windshield just flexes, no hinge.    The KXP wings on mine are full length-27' plus. It's hard to see your LG legs,    but mine are the long skinny ones with a long taper. I also have a variety of    other bent ones, including some short ones with a long taper. I have some    spare struts like your front ones- Thom Riddle was interested in them, but    they weigh 9# for the pair. 

     Take off all the extras and I bet you would weigh about the same-    if you have the 5 rib wings. My spare wing set- the originals- are 5 rib    "clipped" wings. Probably close to Firefly wingspan. If I repair and switch    out I can add extras. 

    

    do not archive

                                                            Bill Sullivan

                                                            FS/KXP

                                                            Windsor Locks, Ct.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	


 

 If you have 5 rib wings I believe that makes it a KX not a KXP. 7 rib was  used on the KXP.

  

 George Randolph 

 Firestar KX driver in the Vllages Fla



Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Well that reminds me of my flying days out of Westborough Mass, when it still had an airport. $10 bucks for the plane and 15 bucks total with the CFI. And I thought that was expensive around 1974. Flew a C-150 out of a grass strip there. I was perpetually broke in those right out of the army college days.  Long ways to building a Kolb from those days.



Ron (Txaz)

==========================

---- william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> wrote: 



=============

  Busy day today- decent weather, and everybody left me alone. The KXP wings are now fully mounted and aligned. The aileron control rods are cut and welded, and being painted tomorrow. I changed both landing gear legs, as they were mis-matched and both bent. Tomorrow- paint the rods, install and adjust. Tighten and maybe re-locate the fuel pump- the aileron control horn bumps or is really close when folded. Maybe fix the ASI static line, and a little glue on some loose windshield trim. Progress, anyway.

    Dana etc., the Ercoupes I flew - 3 or 4 different ones- all had the bubble canopy and rudder pedals. they were fairly new (in 1968) and had only minor differences. They cost $9700 back then, new. Lessons were $20 an hour- $14 for the plane (with gas) and $6 for the instructor.

   

                                                        Bill Sullivan

                                                        FS l

                                                        Windsor Locks, Ct.



--

kugelair.com

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Firestar project

I installed the prop extension. It's an IVO 2 1/2" from Lockwood, part # EAIVOEXT. The prop is a Warp Drive, and the only problem is that the bolts were about 1/2" too short. I shortened the extension to 2", and everything clears just fine.

   

                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     FS/KX/447

                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

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