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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

As the French say, "Each to his own fish."  At least I've been told they say that.I always taught a flow pattern that linked the gear handle movement with the aux hydraulic c/b.  Gear up, pull the c/b.  Gear down (after verifying stable hydraulic pressure) aux hydraulic c/b set.I know there is a school of thought that says c/b's are not switches.  There is a school of thought that says a c/b can take thousands of resets.My suggestion has always been to replace the aux hydraulic c/b with a breaker switch.  I really like that idea because you can install the switch so that up is off.   (If this were not such a public place, I'd suggest moving this switch next to the gear handle.)In normal ops, gear handle and switch position are the same: Gear up / switch up = aux hydraulic pump disabled.Gear handle down / switch down (on) =  aux pump enabled.With a hydraulic abnormal, the pump stays disabled until just prior to touchdown, possibly restoring brakes, the most important appliance at that moment.This may be a bit much for some Commander owners to wrap their minds around but with a bit of time in type and a practiced flow pattern, I'm convinced it's the way to go.  I've been through 3 catastrophic hydraulic failures a  n  d the fact that I disable the aux pump gave me brakes and nose wheel steering 2 out of the 3 times.But then, I prefer salmon to flounder.Wing Commander Gordon

 

  

 

   

 

   

 

 --

rcdettmer(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Gear up, breaker out / gear down, breaker in.  I like that.  Thanks.  

   

RD  

     

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01C89804.4AE7DE60[/img]  

   

Dettmer Architecture  

663 Hill Street  

San Luis Obispo, CA   93405  

805 541 4864 / Fax 805 541 4865  

www.dettmerarchitecture.com  

  

         

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S. Gordon

 Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:15 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas  

  

     

As the French say, "Each to his own fish."  At least I've been told they say that.

 

 I always taught a flow pattern that linked the gear handle movement with the aux hydraulic c/b.  

 

 Gear up, pull the c/b.  

 

 Gear down (after verifying stable hydraulic pressure) aux hydraulic c/b set.

 

 I know there is a school of thought that says c/b's are not switches.  There is a school of thought that says a c/b can take thousands of resets.

 

 My suggestion has always been to replace the aux hydraulic c/b with a breaker switch.  I really like that idea because you can install the switch so that up is off.   (If this were not such a public place, I'd suggest moving this switch next to the gear handle.)

 

 In normal ops, gear handle and switch position are the same: Gear up / switch up = aux hydraulic pump disabled.

  Gear handle down / switch down (on) =  aux pump enabled.

 

 With a hydraulic abnormal, the pump stays disabled until just prior to touchdown, possibly restoring brakes, the most important appliance at that moment.

 

 This may be a bit much for some Commander owners to wrap their minds around but with a bit of time in type and a practiced flow pattern, I'm convinced it's the way to go.  

 

 I've been through 3 catastrophic hydraulic failures a n d the fact that I disable the aux pump gave me brakes and nose wheel steering 2 out of the 3 times.

 

 But then, I prefer salmon to flounder.

 

 Wing Commander Gordon  

    

   

    

   

    

   

  

-----Original Message-----

 From: dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:04 pm

 Subject: RE: Electric fuel pump cycling   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net (dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 

 

 All,

 

 

 

 Just to share:

 

 

 

 In the last year, I have had two occasions of loss of all hyd.

 

 Pressure/fluid due to holes in the hydraulic lines.  Each time I was

 

 airborne and the landing and roll out was no issue due to the remaining

 

 fluid in the reservoir and the electric hyd. Pump.  I would be real

 

 hesitant to pull the breaker after take off and then have another thing

 

 to remember before landing. 

 

 	


          

  

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tfisher(at)commandergroup
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Let's see now....gear out and ahhh cb up?

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aquadiver99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

WCG, that's absolutely right since a Hyd. rupture would cause the aux pump to pump everything above the sump overboard. 

 

 

 Donnie Rose 

205/492-8444

  

 



 ---

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Donnie, do you mean it would pump everything above the standpipe in the 

hydraulic fluid reservoir out? The standpipe is for the engine-driven 

pumps IIRC....the aux pump runs from a drain at the bottom of the 

reservoir. That's so you always have a little fluid in reserve for the 

aux pump to use for steering & brakes in a hydraulic failure event....so 

in a properly functioning hydraulic system (in a 500B anyway), the aux 

pump would pump EVERY DROP overboard if you had a hose rupture. 

Again....ask me how I know .



With my total hydraulic failure, I went to an airport with an 8,000 foot 

runway (OK, it was Morris' home base , landed normally & held the 

nose off until the last taxiway, when I reduced power until I lost 

elevator authority. The nose settled slowly, I rolled a few feet, and 

the nose gear gently folded. I broke a bellcrank and damaged one gear 

door. No fuselage skin damage at all. Could have been worse. At least I 

didn't block the runway!



After that I pulled the tail down, we locked the nose gear down, and 

towed it to Morris' hangar where he fixed it with a minimum of difficulty.



I would be very reluctant to feather both engines on short final or 

after landing, after a hydraulic failure; I would rather retain some 

directional control. In a truly life-threatening situation I think I 

would still be able to use asymmetrical power & rudder to intentionally 

ground-loop the airplane. I've also found that windmilling props are 

quite a set of brakes on their own. The airplane feels much more slick 

with one feathered...and I think Bob Hoover's routine shows how slick 

the airframe is with two feathered!



/J



Donnie Rose wrote:

[quote] WCG, that's absolutely right since a Hyd. rupture would cause the aux 

 pump to pump everything above the sump overboard.



  

 *Donnie Rose

 205/492-8444*

  

 ---

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

I thought a lot after the incident whether feathering both engines was a

good move or not. At the time I was more concerned about collapsing gear and

the expense of a prop strike (I didn't think it was a good time to find out

whether the prop would hit the ground after a gear-collapse) than

directional control, with the runway being more than a mile, slightly uphill

and the rough on the side smooth enough for a couple of hundred feet either

side. It turned out OK. If there had been drainage ditches, a prop strike

would have been the least of my troubles, I guess.

N.





--

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Good Evening Gentlemen,

  

 Just a comment from a non current Commander type.

  

 It is pretty basic, but do you teach the use of adverse aileron drag to aid  in directional control on the ground?

  

 If you are getting down to low speed and the nose starts to swing to the  left, full left aileron will help it come back toward the center. Those ailerons  are pretty effective even with the nose on the ground. The drag of a down  aileron will help even at very low speeds.

  

 It is certainly not intuitive to use left aileron when the nose is swinging  to the left, but it will help bring it back to the right!

  

 And, of course, the same principle works if the nose is heading to the  right when you do not want it to. 

  

 Right aileron will bring the nose to the left.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 4/6/2008 7:41:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  thought    a lot after the incident whether feathering both engines was a

good move or    not. At the time I was more concerned about collapsing gear and

the expense    of a prop strike (I didn't think it was a good time to find out

whether the    prop would hit the ground after a gear-collapse) than

directional control,    with the runway being more than a mile, slightly uphill

and the rough on    the side smooth enough for a couple of hundred feet either

side. It turned    out OK. If there had been drainage ditches, a prop strike

would have been    the least of my troubles, I  guess.

N.

	






Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

swperk(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

As a not-so-trivial question, do all Twin Commanders (with the obvious

exception of the 700) have enough prop clearance so that the props won't hit

with the gear retracted? All the ones I've seen *seem* to be that way,

although the 690 series with their larger diameter props look like they'd

get pretty close! Of course, I'm asking about the situation where the plane

stays upright without tilting to either side.



Stan



--

jtaddington(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

I might as well put my two cents in. I had a friend, which is the best

electronics man I have ever seen, put a switch in the aux pump system with a

blue light that would come on any time the pump is running. He also put in a

red light to tell me the pump switch was off. This was a long time ago and

we got it by the FAA with a field approval. My first Hydraulic failure the

blue light was what told me I had a problem. It took four failures before we

finally found it was the accumulator. I had a mechanic tell me that I should

check the pressure every so often to see if it was bumping the limit. If it

is I should pump the brakes to bring it back down to the 1000 PSI or the

hydraulic fluid will over heat which is what happened to me. We thought it

was pump seals and hoses. I had one more failure when one of the new hoses

failed. I had brakes and steering on all of them. 



Jim A

N444BD

500A



--

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Commanders-



I hope I never regret saying this, but:  If I am making an emergency landing

with the possibility of gear collapse- I'm willing to accept the probability

of consequential damage that results from making the safest approach and

landing possible with the remaining parts of the airplane.



After all- this is what I pay the insurer for...



<knocking on wood>



Robert S. Randazzo

--

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Stan,



I can't speak about the turbine airplanes, especially the 690 series and 

everything that came after, but I'm sure that all the piston airplanes 

will have prop clearance if they land on the belly. There are plenty of 

piston models out there with damage history that mentions "gear-up 

landing" in the logbooks without mentioning "prop strike". I'm aware of 

one airplane that has more than one gear-up landing in the books with no 

mention of a teardown or even IRAN.



/John

Stan wrote:

[quote] 



 As a not-so-trivial question, do all Twin Commanders (with the obvious

 exception of the 700) have enough prop clearance so that the props won't hit

 with the gear retracted? All the ones I've seen *seem* to be that way,

 although the 690 series with their larger diameter props look like they'd

 get pretty close! Of course, I'm asking about the situation where the plane

 stays upright without tilting to either side.



 Stan



 --

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

I didn't know that, Bob. Thinking about it, it makes sense, although at

about 30 mph, which was when it veered off the runway, I wonder if it would

have changed the outcome.

 



  _____  



From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of

BobsV35B(at)aol.com

Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:22 PM

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Good Evening Gentlemen,

 

Just a comment from a non current Commander type.

 

It is pretty basic, but do you teach the use of adverse aileron drag to aid

in directional control on the ground?

 

If you are getting down to low speed and the nose starts to swing to the

left, full left aileron will help it come back toward the center. Those

ailerons are pretty effective even with the nose on the ground. The drag of

a down aileron will help even at very low speeds.

 

It is certainly not intuitive to use left aileron when the nose is swinging

to the left, but it will help bring it back to the right!

 

And, of course, the same principle works if the nose is heading to the right

when you do not want it to. 

 

Right aileron will bring the nose to the left.

 

Happy Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West 86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22



 

In a message dated 4/6/2008 7:41:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:



thought a lot after the incident whether feathering both engines was a

good move or not. At the time I was more concerned about collapsing gear and

the expense of a prop strike (I didn't think it was a good time to find out

whether the prop would hit the ground after a gear-collapse) than

directional control, with the runway being more than a mile, slightly uphill

and the rough on the side smooth enough for a couple of hundred feet either

side. It turned out OK. If there had been drainage ditches, a prop strike

would have been the least of my troubles, I guess.

N.



  _____  



<http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016>

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Good Morning Nico,

  

 Next time you find yourself at a nice long, wide, runway that is dead into  a very light wind and you have a bit of time to spare, give it a try!  Set the power so that the airplane is stable at about twenty to thirty knots and  you will have time to see the various effects.

  

 I generally evaluate any new airplane that I fly in just that manner.

  

 If you try it in a machine that uses spoiler in lieu of aileron, it works  just the opposite. Steers like a car! For those aircraft that use a combination  of spoiler and aileron, it can get squirrely.  

  

 The Boeing 720 was very interesting. Lay in a little bit of aileron and it  would steer the same as an aileron only airplane. Lay in a bit more, the  spoilers came into play and it swung the other way. Put in the rest of the  aileron and back it went!

  

 The Boeing 727 has minimal aileron, but heavy spoiler effectiveness in the  ground configuration and it steers more like an automobile.

  

 That beautiful Aero Commander wing is more like a DC-3. Very effective  aileron. Even more effective when the nose is still in the air, but still usable  with the nose wheel on the ground.

  

 For the Twin Beech and the Curtiss Commando (C-46) such aileron use is the  only safe way to control the airplane on the ground. The rudder is almost  useless.

  

 The DC-3 is more gentle, but aileron is very effective in ground handling.  The Cessna 180 and 185 respond to the technique better than does the 182 but it  is still effective in both.  

  

 Old trick, but it still works!

  

 Obviously, one of my favorite subjects. Any comments are  most welcome!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 4/7/2008 12:44:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I didn't know that,    Bob. Thinking about it, it makes sense, although at about 30 mph, which was    when it veered off the runway, I wonder if it would have changed the    outcome.

    



	






Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

nick(at)container.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Bob  

I have been following this and am unclear as to what to do in the commander ……..is this procedure used when you have lost the nose wheel steering ? and do you steer the opposite direction ? e.g. : turn the control wheel right to go left   

       

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:27 AM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas  

  

  

     

Good Morning Nico,  

    

   

    

Next time you find yourself at a nice long, wide, runway that is dead into a very light wind and you have a bit of time to spare, give it a try! Set the power so that the airplane is stable at about twenty to thirty knots and you will have time to see the various effects.  

    

   

    

I generally evaluate any new airplane that I fly in just that manner.  

    

   

    

If you try it in a machine that uses spoiler in lieu of aileron, it works just the opposite. Steers like a car! For those aircraft that use a combination of spoiler and aileron, it can get squirrely.    

    

   

    

The Boeing 720 was very interesting. Lay in a little bit of aileron and it would steer the same as an aileron only airplane. Lay in a bit more, the spoilers came into play and it swung the other way. Put in the rest of the aileron and back it went!  

    

   

    

The Boeing 727 has minimal aileron, but heavy spoiler effectiveness in the ground configuration and it steers more like an automobile.  

    

   

    

That beautiful Aero Commander wing is more like a DC-3. Very effective aileron. Even more effective when the nose is still in the air, but still usable with the nose wheel on the ground.  

    

   

    

For the Twin Beech and the Curtiss Commando (C-46) such aileron use is the only safe way to control the airplane on the ground. The rudder is almost useless.  

    

   

    

The DC-3 is more gentle, but aileron is very effective in ground handling. The Cessna 180 and 185 respond to the technique better than does the 182 but it is still effective in both.    

    

   

    

Old trick, but it still works!  

    

   

    

Obviously, one of my favorite subjects. Any comments are most welcome!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 4/7/2008 12:44:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nico(at)cybersuperstore.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

I didn't know that, Bob. Thinking about it, it makes sense, although at about 30 mph, which was when it veered off the runway, I wonder if it would have changed the outcome.  

   

   	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.  

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No virus found in this incoming message.

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kamala(at)MSN.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

the non turbine bodies will incur a prop strike if only one gear colapses. gmc



  > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:00:54 -0700

[quote] From: john(at)vormbaum.com

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Commander-List: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

 

 --> Commander-List message posted by: John Vormbaum <john(at)vormbaum.com>

 

 Stan,

 

 I can't speak about the turbine airplanes, especially the 690 series and 

 everything that came after, but I'm sure that all the piston airplanes 

 will have prop clearance if they land on the belly. There are plenty of 

 piston models out there with damage history that mentions "gear-up 

 landing" in the logbooks without mentioning "prop strike". I'm aware of 

 one airplane that has more than one gear-up landing in the books with no 

 mention of a teardown or even IRAN.

 

 /John

 

 

 Stan wrote:

 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Stan" <swperk(at)earthlink.net>

 >

 > As a not-so-trivial question, do all Twin Commanders (with the obvious

 > exception of the 700) have enough prop clearance so that the props won't hit

 > with the gear retracted? All the ones I've seen *seem* to be that way,

 > although the 690 series with their larger diameter props look like they'd

 > get pretty close! Of course, I'm asking about the situation where the plane

 > stays upright without tilting to either side.

 >

 > Stan

 >

 > --

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Good Morning Nick,

  

 Actually, I recommend that the procedure be used every time you fly the  airplane!

  

 It is so counter intuitive that it needs to be ingrained so that you will  use it correctly when the chips are down.

  

 I would imagine your were taught to do it that way from your first hour of  training, but the reason it works was not explained. Didn't your instructor tell  you to use aileron into the wind in a crosswind?

  

 They will usually tell you that action is to hold the wing down, but the  more important reason for using the aileron into the wind is generally to aid in  directional control.

  

 Once again, there are many variables and it is just one of many possible  techniques, but it does work.

  

 If you have any seaplane experience, you were probably taught how to "Sail"  the machine when on the water. 

  

 Same deal!

  

 The idea is to use everything that is available at all times, but be  careful that you do not apply one correction that is fighting another.

  

 As an example. The Fairchild Model Twenty Four is one of the most  delightful and gentle airplanes to fly that I have ever seen.   However, the aileron adverse yaw is so great that if full right aileron is used  for a slight right crosswind, the left turning effect is so powerful that you  will run out of right rudder when trying to hold it straight. That same effect  can be seen, though not as powerfully, when flying a Twin Beech or a C-46.

  

 The idea is to know how powerful the turning force is for your individual  airplane and then use it according to circumstances that exist. 

  

 I try to teach that it be worked with constantly so that the control is  available when needed.

  

 Used correctly, the nose wheel steering will only be required for taxiing  and, even then, the advantageous use of aileron "adverse" yaw can be  helpful.

  

 Any help?

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 4/7/2008 8:11:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  nick(at)container.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Bob   

I    have been following this and am unclear as to what to do in the commander    ……..is this procedure used when you have lost the nose wheel steering ? and do    you steer the opposite direction ? e.g. : turn the control wheel right to go    left    

 	






Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Ok.... So you're essentially using adverse yaw...... on the ground to steer  in a jam....... As long as the ship you're flying develops adverse yaw with  aileron.... Yes?

 [quote]   ---

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Question answered.... I had not received the last post when I wrote  mine......

 [quote]   ---

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Hi Steve,

  

 Yep! Except I recommend that it be used not just in a jam, but all of the  time!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 4/7/2008 9:21:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  steve2(at)sover.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Ok.... So you're essentially using adverse yaw...... on the ground to    steer in a jam....... As long as the ship you're flying develops adverse yaw    with aileron....  Yes?

	






Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

nick(at)container.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas

Bob ,thank you ,I’ll give it a try….  

     

Nicolas E. Martin  

Martin Container, Inc.  

1402 E. Lomita Blvd.  

Wilmington, Ca 90748  

Tel: 310-830-5000, Fax : 310-830-2562  

        

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 7:02 AM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Commander-List: Electric Hydraulic Pump Ideas  

  

     

Good Morning Nick,  

    

   

    

Actually, I recommend that the procedure be used every time you fly the airplane!  

    

   

    

It is so counter intuitive that it needs to be ingrained so that you will use it correctly when the chips are down.  

    

   

    

I would imagine your were taught to do it that way from your first hour of training, but the reason it works was not explained. Didn't your instructor tell you to use aileron into the wind in a crosswind?  

    

   

    

They will usually tell you that action is to hold the wing down, but the more important reason for using the aileron into the wind is generally to aid in directional control.  

    

   

    

Once again, there are many variables and it is just one of many possible techniques, but it does work.  

    

   

    

If you have any seaplane experience, you were probably taught how to "Sail" the machine when on the water.   

    

   

    

Same deal!  

    

   

    

The idea is to use everything that is available at all times, but be careful that you do not apply one correction that is fighting another.  

    

   

    

As an example. The Fairchild Model Twenty Four is one of the most delightful and gentle airplanes to fly that I have ever seen.  However, the aileron adverse yaw is so great that if full right aileron is used for a slight right crosswind, the left turning effect is so powerful that you will run out of right rudder when trying to hold it straight. That same effect can be seen, though not as powerfully, when flying a Twin Beech or a C-46.  

    

   

    

The idea is to know how powerful the turning force is for your individual airplane and then use it according to circumstances that exist.   

    

   

    

I try to teach that it be worked with constantly so that the control is available when needed.  

    

   

    

Used correctly, the nose wheel steering will only be required for taxiing and, even then, the advantageous use of aileron "adverse" yaw can be helpful.  

    

   

    

Any help?  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 4/7/2008 8:11:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, nick(at)container.com writes:  

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Bob  

I have been following this and am unclear as to what to do in the commander ……..is this procedure used when you have lost the nose wheel steering ? and do you steer the opposite direction ? e.g. : turn the control wheel right to go left   

   	
  

  

  



 

         

  

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     Checked by AVG.  Release Date: 3/27/2008 10:03 AM 

  Checked by AVG.

 3/27/2008 10:03 AM

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