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jb92563

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

Has anyone ever had the tip of the spark plug unscew in flight and lose ignition?



I have noticed that these things like to unscrew themselves if you spark plug cap in not gripping it very tight.



I am wondering if there is a way people have been preventing that.



I guess the plugs that don't have the screw cap is an obvious answer if you can find them...?



High temp Lock-Tite might work?



I had a Lazair with twin Rotax 185's that required a "Plug terminal Check" before every flight.



And I noticed it happening a couple evenings ago on My UltraStar while testing the engine & CHT probes.



I took the Vice Grip to it and cranked it on as tight as I dared go.

_________________
Ray

Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider

Do Not Archive

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

I use the solid cap plug. You can get either one at the auto parts store. Just check them before you buy them. They seem to show up on the computer with the same part # but they appear on two separate lines. One may have a different description or something.  I have them bring both to the counter. 



With the screw on caps I "crimp" them with diagonal cutting pliers so they can't turn.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

Ray



  Take the little cap off of the plug and then squeeze it together 

just a wee bit... Creates a distorted nut so to speak.. Will hold then.. Herb

At 03:02 PM 4/3/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Has anyone ever had the tip of the spark plug unscew in flight and 

loose ignition?



I have noticed that these things like to unscrew themselves if you 

spark plug cap in not gripping it very tight.



I am wondering if there is a way people have been preventing that.



I guess the plugs that don't have the screw cap is an obvious answer 

if you can find them...?



High temp Lock-Tite might work?



I had a Lazair with twin Rotax 185's that required a "Plug terminal 

Check" before every flight.



And I noticed it happening a couple evenings ago on My UltraStar 

while testing the engine & CHT probes.



I took the Vice Grip to it and cranked it on as tight as I dared go.



--------

Ray



Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)

Moni MotorGlider

Schreder HP-11 Glider

Riverside County, CA



Do Not Archive





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174627#174627

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

I always lock tight these on. Have had one come off on an inverted engine 

once but was above airport at the time so was no problem.



 Tony

       Downunder

---

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

In a message dated 4/3/2008 4:05:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jb92563(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I have noticed that these things like to unscrew themselves if you    spark plug cap in not gripping it very tight.



I am wondering if there    is a way people have been preventing that.

    

   Ray,

    

   Here's how I did it.  Remove the cap.  Lay    the threaded end of the plug on a vise (or some other solid surface)    and then lightly hammer the threads so as to deform them slightly.  Now    screw the cap back on.  It will have resistance, like a self locking    nut.  Don't over do it or you might break the ceramic.  You can    experiment on how much to smash the threads to get a workable    resistance.  I now use the NGK plugs that have solid caps.     

   Bill Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon    NJ

	




Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

At 04:02 PM 4/3/2008, jb92563 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I guess the plugs that don't have the screw cap is an obvious answer if 

you can find them...?


	


I asked about the solid tip plugs at the local auto parts store but they 

said they couldn't get them from their distributor.  However, you can mail 

order them from, I know CPS sells only the solid plugs, probably the other 

aircraft suppliers do the same.



You can also get a spark plug cap that presses onto the threaded part with 

the screw cap removed.



-Dana

--

  War doesn't determine who's right but who's left.

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

 	  aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz wrote: 	
		  I always lock tight these on. Have had one come off on an inverted engine 

once but was above airport at the time so was no problem.



 Tony

       Downunder

--- 	




I was under the impression that you do not want to put any goop on the threads. It may prevent a good electrical connection.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

I ordered BR8ES spark plugs from Aircraft Spruce a couple months ago and they sent me the screw top plugs.  I was POed.  An aircraft parts supplier should know better.  When I made a large parts order of stuff to replace with my condition inspection this month I ordered from CPS.  They sent the right plugs...solid top.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

 	  Tom Jones wrote: 	
		  I ordered BR8ES spark plugs from Aircraft Spruce a couple months ago and they sent me the screw top plugs.  I was POed.  An aircraft parts supplier should know better.  When I made a large parts order of stuff to replace with my condition inspection this month I ordered from CPS.  They sent the right plugs...solid top. 	




These NGK plugs are _not_ aircraft parts - says so on the little box the plug comes in, note the little quicksilver with the circle/strikeout over it.



Yes, the solid top plug has the same little struck-out ultralight on it.



If you need the solid tops, you probably have to explicitly order them (though I don't see a part no on a/c spruce).



The screw-on caps are fine _IF_ your wire end caps are in good shape. They should be a tight fit on the plug and a struggle, or at least a firm pull, to remove.

If they come off easily they're worn out and need to be replaced - good caps will hold the screw-on tops in place with no tendency to unscrew (unless they're just slap loose to begin with).



The NGK parts are the same as the rotax ones but are about 10% of the price.



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Spark Plugs

I am wondering if there is a way people have been preventing that.>>



Hi,

on the Challenger with an inverted 503 I  just wound a bungee around the 

lead ends, there are plenty of places to hook on. Worked fine.



Cheers



Pat

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

 	  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: 	
		  I am wondering if there is a way people have been preventing that.>>



Hi,

on the Challenger with an inverted 503 I  just wound a bungee around the 

lead ends, there are plenty of places to hook on. Worked fine.



Cheers



Pat 	




By the way, this is the primary diagnostic that you have bad wire-end caps - even on an inverted installation the caps should still stay firmly attached to the plugs and no tie-wrapping or other extra securing should be necessary to keep them on.



You should still end up cussing a bit pulling the caps off, even on an inverted motor. Replace at first sign they're pulling off more easily than when new.....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

I use the screw on type spark plugs. I install the plug and use a small channel lock pliers to tighten the cap. It knurls up the cap a little and provides better holding inside the spark plug cap. I always use a long cable tie over the plug and it keeps the plugs from moving around. I've never had a cap loosen up.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

At 09:25 AM 4/4/2008, Tom Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I ordered BR8ES spark plugs from Aircraft Spruce a couple months ago and 

they sent me the screw top plugs.  I was POed.  An aircraft parts supplier 

should know better.  When I made a large parts order of stuff to replace 

with my condition inspection this month I ordered from CPS.  They sent the 

right plugs...solid top.


	


I emailed CPS a few weeks ago before ordering other stuff as well as some 

plugs, and they confirmed that they sell only the solid tip plugs.  On the 

ACS website, it explicitly says that the NGK plugs are "not for aircraft 

use".  Liability, I know, but...



-Dana

--

  It feels great to wake up and not know what day it is, doesn't it?

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Spark Plugs

the caps should still stay firmly attached to the plugs and no tie-wrapping 

or other extra securing should be necessary to keep them on.>>



Hi,

 I have no idea if it was `necessary` or not. The leads never fell off  or 

even felt loose. With an engine the right way up I should not have bothered 

but  on an inverted one tieing them on just seemed a sensible belt and 

braces precaution



Cheers



Pat

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: spark plugs

I also like the large, sturdy looking electrodes on the NGKs.  I  

tried the flimsy platinum wire Bosches

and they were ok but didn't seem to perform as well.  My imagination  

perhaps.



My boot type connectors stay on ok but then they are leaning into the  

wind. 



-for the curious, the fan is for slow taxiing behind slowpokes if I  

go to a flyin.  I manually switch it

but a thermoswitch would be nice.  Stock yamaha ventura radiator.

BB





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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: spark plugs

Bob,



  Regarding your radiator, what engine size was the Yamaha Vetura??  I have a snowmobile radiator on 

my GEO.  I can't remember the make, but IIRC, the size of the engine it cooled was about 650-700cc.

Have you ever really needed the electric fan, or is on there "just in case"?



Mike Welch



Do Not Archive

_________________________________________________________________

More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: spark plugs

Mike, the ventura started out as a 1200 cc and was later sold as 1300.

The key to a radiator is more air flow than size.  If you locate it  

near the prop you

will be better off on the ground. Mine is a mile away hence the fan.

Sitting on the ground on a hot day you will need some kind of  

enhancement.



A couple years ago I popped a coolant hose inflight and my oil cooler  

saved the day.

I reported at the time that I heard a scraping sound when I hand  

turned the prop

before the completion of my journey.  -That turned out to be the ONLY  

bolt that wasn't

safety wired, a water pump bolt that worked its way out to scrape on  

the back of the

pulley.  In my defense, it was not a very noticeable or accessible  

location.



I can actually watch my temp gauge go back down when I flick the switch.

BB

On 5, Apr 2008, at 2:59 PM, Mike Welch wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   





 Bob,



   Regarding your radiator, what engine size was the Yamaha  

 Vetura??  I have a snowmobile radiator on

 my GEO.  I can't remember the make, but IIRC, the size of the  

 engine it cooled was about 650-700cc.

 Have you ever really needed the electric fan, or is on there "just  

 in case"?



 Mike Welch



 Do Not Archive

 _________________________________________________________________

 More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live  

 Messenger.

 http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html? 

 ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: spark plugs

Hi Bob,

   I'm going to run out to the shop and measure my radiator size.  Back in sec......

   Okay, here's what I've got:  7.5 inches wide X 8.5 inches tall X 1.5 inches deep.  These dimensions are of the actual finned area.  

   My radiator location looks to be about the same as your's...front of the engine.  I also have an oil cooler I plan on installing, probably near the prop somewhere.

   Do you think my radiator is big enough??  I appreciate your opinion.  Although I have had my engine/prop running long ago, I haven't flown it yet.

 Mike W.

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: slyck(at)frontiernet.net

 Subject: Re: spark plugs

 Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:19:52 -0400

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>

 Mike, the ventura started out as a 1200 cc and was later sold as 1300.

 The key to a radiator is more air flow than size. If you locate it 

 near the prop you

 will be better off on the ground. Mine is a mile away hence the fan.

 Sitting on the ground on a hot day you will need some kind of 

 enhancement.

 A couple years ago I popped a coolant hose inflight and my oil cooler 

 saved the day.

 I reported at the time that I heard a scraping sound when I hand 

 turned the prop

 before the completion of my journey. -That turned out to be the ONLY 

 bolt that wasn't

 safety wired, a water pump bolt that worked its way out to scrape on 

 the back of the

 pulley. In my defense, it was not a very noticeable or accessible 

 location.

 I can actually watch my temp gauge go back down when I flick the switch.

 BB

 On 5, Apr 2008, at 2:59 PM, Mike Welch wrote:

 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Bob,

 >

 > Regarding your radiator, what engine size was the Yamaha 

 > Vetura?? I have a snowmobile radiator on

 > my GEO. I can't remember the make, but IIRC, the size of the 

 > engine it cooled was about 650-700cc.

 > Have you ever really needed the electric fan, or is on there "just 

 > in case"?

 >

 > Mike Welch

 >

 > Do Not Archive

 >

 >

 > _________________________________________________________________

 > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live 

 > Messenger.

 > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html? 

 > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

===============

Pack up or back up–use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn how.  [quote][b]

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Spark Plugs

I received a bunch of screw top B8ES plugs from Aircraft Spruce over a year ago.  I got on the phone to customer service and they took them back.  I wrote them an e-mail about the safety issue of solid vs screw tops and included the correct NGK stock number.  I got absolutely no response.  Interesting that they have chosen to add a legalese warning instead of stocking the right plugs.  I hope this isn't indicative of a change of attitude for the worse at AC Spruce.  Probably just standard CYA.

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: Spark Plugs

In a message dated 4/7/2008 12:39:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rphanks(at)grantspass.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  received    a bunch of screw top B8ES plugs from Aircraft Spruce over a year ago.  I    got on the phone to customer service and they took them back.  I wrote    them an e-mail about the safety issue of solid vs screw tops and included the    correct NGK stock number.  I got absolutely no response.     Interesting that they have chosen to add a legalese warning instead of    stocking the right plugs.  I hope this isn't indicative of a change of    attitude for the worse at AC Spruce.  Probably just standard    CYA.



--------

Roger in Oregon

1992 KXP 503 -  N1782C

	


 

 the caps on the plugs are a big danger....ask me how I know....I just  happened to be coming in for a landing one day (several years ago) and all of a  sudden the engine felt like it was going to try to break awayfrom the firestar.  Almost without looking around for a place to land which I was already doing, I  killed the engine and just glidded in.  Just added a lil fun to the flight  .  On the ground it was evident that one plug was not firing as pulling on  the lead pulled it off of the plug....looking down inside the rubber boot I  could see the cap still hooked into the distribution wire. at the bottom of the  cap.

  

 It happens.

  

 George Randolph

 Firestar driver (447) from The Villages, Fl



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

  [quote][b]

_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

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