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Firestar Project
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gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Firestar project

Bill, 

   Best of luck making your goal.A noble challenge.

---

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Gary- My Firestar appears to be the old "KX" version. It is a single seat, plastic dash, and very, very sparsely built. For example, even the throttle control lever is light- built from tubing in a "T" shape. I am certain that the fuselage tube was built shorter than normal, as the replacement wings- not yet identified, but light- extend past the tail when folded. The wing "sockets" for folding go past the fuse tube end. The original wingspan was 25'4". With the replacements, the wingspan is 27'6". There is no apparent serial number. I am giving only the "wet" weight, as I still have a full tank of 5 gallons. I will weigh again when I drain it.

    I think the original KX was designed lighter than today's version, never mind the wings being 5 rib. Possibly lighter or smaller or thinner wall tubing? After I transport it, I will be able to compare side by side with Ed Harvey's in Palmer, Mass.

    Also keep in mind- I am very inexperienced,  and this is the first Kolb I have ever worked on. My observations are ONLY valid for this aircraft. I can say with confidence that the Kolb's must be a very solidly designed plane. You should see my collection of bent LG legs that came with it, and no other apparent damage. Besides scuff marks on the nose cone, and we all know what that's from.

   

                                                         Bill Sullivan

                                                          FS/KX/447

 [quote][b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: Firestar project

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bill,



 I have been following your progress.  Having met 103-7 the weight and fuel

 capacity restrictions, how are you going to meet the drag and power

 restrictions to ensure that it does not fly too fast?



 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester, IN

 Jack,

I would think with the longer wing, Bills Firestar will meet the math 
	


requirments of 103.  Also, a Firestar fuselage is probably a little wider 

than a Fireflys?

With a 447 and also meeting the weight and fuel limits, who would bother 

with the equations?



Denny Rowe

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Re: The Firestar with a 503. According to the Lockwood book, the 503 weighs about 12 1/2 pounds more than a 447. It's hard to be exact, but that is due to engine weight, 2 carbs, and exhaust differences. I don't know about differences in the gearbox. 

    Denny- I can't measure the fuselage width right now- looks like rain, but I will post it first chance for anyone who cares to measure something. Also the main tube length.

   

                                                   Bill Sullivan

                                                    FS/KX/447

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

   

   

 [quote][b]

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: Firestar project

Bill 

 a 66" tenn Wood prop weighs 5.7 Lbs  

  

 Ellery in Maine

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 4/11/2008 5:54:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Re: The Firestar with a 503. According to the Lockwood book, the 503    weighs about 12 1/2 pounds more than a 447. It's hard to be exact, but that is    due to engine weight, 2 carbs, and exhaust differences. I don't know    about differences in the gearbox. 

     Denny- I can't measure the fuselage width right now- looks like    rain, but I will post it first chance for anyone who cares to measure    something. Also the main tube length.

    

                                                       Bill Sullivan

                                                       FS/KX/447

                                                       Windsor Locks, Ct.

    

    

 	  Quote: 	
		  



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




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  [quote][b]

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: Firestar project

also the tail boom tube on my old firestar was 13 feet  long 

 Ellery in Maine

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 4/12/2008 10:45:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ElleryWeld(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Bill 

   a 66" tenn Wood prop weighs 5.7 Lbs    

    

   Ellery in Maine

   do not archive

    

      In a message dated 4/11/2008 5:54:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,    williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		       Re: The Firestar with a 503. According to the Lockwood book, the 503      weighs about 12 1/2 pounds more than a 447. It's hard to be exact, but that      is due to engine weight, 2 carbs, and exhaust differences. I don't know      about differences in the gearbox. 

       Denny- I can't measure the fuselage width right now- looks like      rain, but I will post it first chance for anyone who cares to measure      something. Also the main tube length.

      

                                                           Bill Sullivan

                                                           FS/KX/447

                                                           Windsor Locks, Ct.

      

      

 	  Quote: 	
		  



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




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 	  Quote: 	
		  



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




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  [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Bill, FWIW, my clear vinyl gap seal (.040" thick material from 

McMaster-Carr) weighs 2.2 lbs.



Discovered my personal comfort limits in the Ultrastar today.  You know the 

old saying, "It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, 

than in the air wishing you were on the ground"... I can safely say that an 

80° crosswind at 12G18 (it didn't seem that bad when I took off) is TOO 

WINDY.  Got down without breaking anything but they guys watching must have 

enjoyed the show!  Good thing I had help folding it up again.



-Dana



--

  I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with 

sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -- Galileo 

Galilei

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Firestar project

Anybody with an original Firestar, a KX version, or a Firefly want to grab their overall length for me? The TNK website no longer gives length. My Firestar KX measured out at 19' even, with a tail boom OAL of 12'. Ellery's FS was 13'.

    I'm still trying to identify this thing, and it gets more confusing each time I try. It is starting to look like an FS/KX built light for 103.

   

                                                Bill Sullivan

                                                 FS/KX/447

                                                Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: Firestar project

second time!



Bill, FWIW, my clear vinyl gap seal (.040" thick material from  

McMaster-Carr) weighs 2.2 lbs.



Discovered my personal comfort limits in the Ultrastar today.  You  

know the old saying, "It's better to be on the ground wishing you  

were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground"... I  

can safely say that an 80° crosswind at 12G18 (it didn't seem that  

bad when I took off) is TOO WINDY.  Got down without breaking  

anything but they guys watching must have enjoyed the show!  Good  

thing I had help folding it up again.



-Dana

via bob n

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: Firestar project

At 08:03 PM 4/12/2008, Bob Noyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



second time!


	


"second time"?



-Dana



do not archive

--

  Software isn't released, it's allowed to escape.

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: Firestar project

DANA!

Most glad you didn't fold it up on the runway!

Russ



do not archive

On Apr 12, 2008, at 8:03 PM, Bob Noyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 second time!



 Bill, FWIW, my clear vinyl gap seal (.040" thick material from  

 McMaster-Carr) weighs 2.2 lbs.



 Discovered my personal comfort limits in the Ultrastar today.  You  

 know the old saying, "It's better to be on the ground wishing you  

 were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground"...  

 I can safely say that an 80° crosswind at 12G18 (it didn't seem  

 that bad when I took off) is TOO WINDY.  Got down without breaking  

 anything but they guys watching must have enjoyed the show!  Good  

 thing I had help folding it up again.



 -Dana

 via bob n

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Firestar project

I found a Firefly length of 19' 6" on Jack Hart's website. My Firestar is 19' even. Anybody have the length on a Firestar l or Kx? Comments?

   

                                                  Bill Sullivan

                                                  FS/KX/447

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Firestar project

In a message dated 4/12/2008 11:23:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I found a Firefly length of 19' 6" on Jack Hart's website. My Firestar is    19' even. Anybody have the length on a Firestar l or Kx? Comments?

    

                                                   Bill    Sullivan

                                                   FS/KX/447

                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	


 

 The Firestar length on my 1985 copywrite KX and KXP  overview drawings  is:

  

 Overall length from nosecone tip to back of rudder: 20' 3"

 Wingspan is 27' 8"

  

 George Randolph Firestar KX driver, 447 Rotax, points

 The Villages, Fl



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_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks, George. I would love to know this history on mine. The closer I look, the stranger it gets. I have the Ducati ignition, and I do have a serial number on the engine. It does look original, but who knows. Once I get it to the airport maybe somebody will know more.

   

  do not archive

                                              Bill Sullivan

                                              FS/KX?/447

                                               Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

At 07:19 PM 4/13/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks, George. I would love to know this history 

on mine. The closer I look, the stranger it gets...


	


Nothing you can track back through the previous owner(s)?



-Dana



do not archive



--

  A seminar on Time Travel will be held two weeks ago.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

Dana- I asked about the source, but the guy I bought it from had shared ownership with somebody else. When I asked him, he said the other guy might know and I didn't follow through. I think I'll e-mail him.

   

  do not archive

                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     FS/KX/447

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Firestar Project

At 08:59 PM 4/13/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Dana- I asked about the source, but the guy I bought it from had shared 

 ownership with somebody else. When I asked him, he said the other guy 

 might know and I didn't follow through. I think I'll e-mail him.


	


Hope you have better luck than I had.  Actually I know three owners back 

for my plane, but the first guy I know (who bought it sometime in the early 

90's) doesn't remember the original owner's name, only that he "was an old 

guy" and probably dead now.  Of course mine is mostly stock so there aren't 

many questions.  Of the three owners I know, only one ever flew it (and he 

only flew it a couple of times), though some of their friends flew it 

occasionally.



-Dana



do not archive

--

  Nowadays only a lawyer can tell legal from illegal, and the lawyers don't 

know the difference between right and wrong.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: Firestar Project

An "old guy"?  hmmmm, is there any other kind of Kolb owner?  -Or  

flyer for that matter.

It doesn't look good for the sport when everyone is 60+

It can't solely be a matter of affordability because I see lots of  

$6000+  snowmobiles,

4 wheelers, not to mention those ridiculous $$$$$$ boats.

BB

do not archive

On 13, Apr 2008, at 9:17 PM, Dana Hague wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 08:59 PM 4/13/2008, william sullivan wrote:

>   Dana- I asked about the source, but the guy I bought it from had  

> shared ownership with somebody else. When I asked him, he said the  

> other guy might know and I didn't follow through. I think I'll e- 

> mail him.

 Hope you have better luck than I had.  Actually I know three owners  

 back for my plane, but the first guy I know (who bought it sometime  

 in the early 90's) doesn't remember the original owner's name, only  

 that he "was an old guy" and probably dead now.  Of course mine is  

 mostly stock so there aren't many questions.  Of the three owners I  

 know, only one ever flew it (and he only flew it a couple of  

 times), though some of their friends flew it occasionally.

 -Dana

 do not archive

 --

  Nowadays only a lawyer can tell legal from illegal, and the  

 lawyers don't know the difference between right and wrong.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Firestar Project

At 09:40 PM 4/13/2008, robert bean wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  An "old guy"?  hmmmm, is there any other kind of Kolb owner?  -Or

flyer for that matter.

It doesn't look good for the sport when everyone is 60+

It can't solely be a matter of affordability because I see lots of

$6000+  snowmobiles,

4 wheelers, not to mention those ridiculous $$$$$$ boats.


	


This comes up regularly on the PPG forums... you'd think that would be a 

young person's sport, but the average participant is 40-60.  It's because 

flying (of any kind) doesn't mix well with a young man's primary interests 

(women and beer).



-Dana

--

  Clothes make the man.  Naked people have little or no influence on society.

Michael Sharp

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: Oak Grove, MO (Kansas City)

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: Firestar Project

Well,

   

  I'm 43 and I'm a flyer, I still like Women and Beer too...

   

  HMMMMM   

   

  Do not archive!



Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague 



At 09:40 PM 4/13/2008, robert bean wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  An "old guy"? hmmmm, is there any other kind of Kolb owner? -Or

flyer for that matter.

It doesn't look good for the sport when everyone is 60+

It can't solely be a matter of affordability because I see lots of

$6000+ snowmobiles,

4 wheelers, not to mention those ridiculous $$$$$$ boats.


	


This comes up regularly on the PPG forums... you'd think that would be a 

young person's sport, but the average participant is 40-60. It's because [quote][b]

_________________
The air up there in the clouds is very pure and fine...And why shouldn't it be?-
--It is the same the angels breathe.
Mark Twain,
Roughing it' 1886

Mike

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