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New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

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Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

Gents,

I dont know if you went down to the Sun'n'fun Gala, and even if you did you might not have paid much attention to the runner-up to Steve's FloatFly...The second place winner was a Buckeye  powered parachute with a v-twin 32 hp generac industrial engine on it. This is the the same kind of airframe that won the inovation award, and something else at OshKosh last summer with the Honda V-twin on it. I have been closely watching these guys and they are making great strides at bringing  4 stroke industrial engines into our sport. I have spoken with Ralph at Buckeye personally many timies over the last year, and I can tell you he is definately going to offer this as an engine package to the entire market.

Right now...he is very close.

Let me give you some of the details on this generac package.



993cc v-twin 4 stroke. (this engine will go 2500 hours at 3600 rpms men)

PolyV belt reduction of his own design, and it looks like very high quality.

Tennessee prop. (it is swinging a 74 incher on the chute, 36 pitch I think)

Eletric start!

Static thrust numbers are in excess of 300 lbs!at 3800 rpms...This is more than a 447 with a 2.58:1 and a 60 inch

Fuel consumption is 1.5 gallon per hour. (Industy rating for generator application) and I am certain it is very close.

Electric start Engine, prop,reduction unit and mufflers are right at 100 lbs.

At this time, the engine is NOT modified, it is stock, so the TBO for its industrial application will be the same.

He told me just this week he thinks he will be able to deliver the whole package to market for about 3500 bucks.

Now, I dont know if a FireFly could stand a 100 lb powerplant package and still make 254lbs....but I do know for certain it will fly with the weight..and fly very well. A FireStar should be a jewell with this package.



Some of you have heard me preach before that the industrial v-twins are soon to be a viable powerplant for our sport, and that time is very quickly approaching! Fuel consumption will allow ranges like we have never seen before on 5 gallons...the noise is so much less than we are used to it is unbelievable...and electric start. Not to mention the price will be half what a rotax package will cost, and the way Rotax is going...likely alot less than half very soon. Most of us would never even have to consider an overhaul.....not in 2500 hours, thats more than a lifetime for 99% of the ultralites



It has also been said that the sport pilot rule has killed the ultralight market by so many in the industry I cannot count em all. Well, I challenge that reasoning. I believe it is the Cost...Rotax engines have doubled in price in the last few years, and I believe this is the biggest reason. If a manufacturer could take 30% off an ultralite plane/engine cost to the customer, this might be the biggest boost the market could get, and with this package...well, these developments just might be the revival of the part 103 aircraft market. here is another prediction...the first company that designs an aircraft around a V-twin powerplant package and gets it to market, will have a huge success in sales! Buckeye has done this with their DragonFly PPC and I hope someone does it with a fixed wing.

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

Thanks for the report Don.  New stuff is good.  How do they work the  

crank/rod connection?

On the same throw with a master rod? -or side by side?

BB

do not archive



On 17, Apr 2008, at 8:15 PM, Don G wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Gents,

 I dont know if you went down to the Sun'n'fun Gala, and even if you  

 did you might not have paid much attention to the runner-up to  

 Steve's FloatFly...The second place winner was a Buckeye  powered  

 parachute with a v-twin 32 hp generac industrial engine on it. This  

 is the the same kind of airframe that won the inovation award, and  

 something else at OshKosh last summer with the Honda V-twin on it.  

 I have been closely watching these guys and they are making great  

 strides at bringing  4 stroke industrial engines into our sport. I  

 have spoken with Ralph at Buckeye personally many timies over the  

 last year, and I can tell you he is definately going to offer this  

 as an engine package to the entire market.

 Right now...he is very close.

 Let me give you some of the details on this generac package.



 993cc v-twin 4 stroke. (this engine will go 2500 hours at 3600 rpms  

 men)

 PolyV belt reduction of his own design, and it looks like very high  

 quality.

 Tennessee prop. (it is swinging a 74 incher on the chute, 36 pitch  

 I think)

 Eletric start!

 Static thrust numbers are in excess of 300 lbs!at 3800 rpms...This  

 is more than a 447 with a 2.58:1 and a 60 inch

 Fuel consumption is 1.5 gallon per hour. (Industy rating for  

 generator application) and I am certain it is very close.

 Electric start Engine, prop,reduction unit and mufflers are right  

 at 100 lbs.

 At this time, the engine is NOT modified, it is stock, so the TBO  

 for its industrial application will be the same.

 He told me just this week he thinks he will be able to deliver the  

 whole package to market for about 3500 bucks.

 Now, I dont know if a FireFly could stand a 100 lb powerplant  

 package and still make 254lbs....but I do know for certain it will  

 fly with the weight..and fly very well. A FireStar should be a  

 jewell with this package.



 Some of you have heard me preach before that the industrial v-twins  

 are soon to be a viable powerplant for our sport, and that time is  

 very quickly approaching! Fuel consumption will allow ranges like  

 we have never seen before on 5 gallons...the noise is so much less  

 than we are used to it is unbelievable...and electric start. Not to  

 mention the price will be half what a rotax package will cost, and  

 the way Rotax is going...likely alot less than half very soon. Most  

 of us would never even have to consider an overhaul.....not in 2500  

 hours, thats more than a lifetime for 99% of the ultralites



 It has also been said that the sport pilot rule has killed the  

 ultralight market by so many in the industry I cannot count em all.  

 Well, I challenge that reasoning. I believe it is the Cost...Rotax  

 engines have doubled in price in the last few years, and I believe  

 this is the biggest reason. If a manufacturer could take 30% off an  

 ultralite plane/engine cost to the customer, this might be the  

 biggest boost the market could get, and with this package...well,  

 these developments just might be the revival of the part 103  

 aircraft market. here is another prediction...the first company  

 that designs an aircraft around a V-twin powerplant package and  

 gets it to market, will have a huge success in sales! Buckeye has  

 done this with their DragonFly PPC and I hope someone does it with  

 a fixed wing.



 --------

 Don G.

 Central Illinois

 Kitfox IV Speedster

 Luscombe 8A



 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177521#177521

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

same throw; side by side, .All the current small industrial v=twins are designed this way

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

Don



   there is a Valley Engineering Big Twin with redrive on a Kolb Twin 

Star . Dick Starks wife flys it.. Kansas City Dawn Patrol.  Generac 

engine I think..?  Herb

At 07:15 PM 4/17/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Gents,

I dont know if you went down to the Sun'n'fun Gala, and even if you 

did you might not have paid much attention to the runner-up to 

Steve's FloatFly...The second place winner was a Buckeye  powered 

parachute with a v-twin 32 hp generac industrial engine on it. This 

is the the same kind of airframe that won the inovation award, and 

something else at OshKosh last summer with the Honda V-twin on it. I 

have been closely watching these guys and they are making great 

strides at bringing  4 stroke industrial engines into our sport. I 

have spoken with Ralph at Buckeye personally many timies over the 

last year, and I can tell you he is definately going to offer this 

as an engine package to the entire market.

Right now...he is very close.

Let me give you some of the details on this generac package.



993cc v-twin 4 stroke. (this engine will go 2500 hours at 3600 rpms men)

PolyV belt reduction of his own design, and it looks like very high quality.

Tennessee prop. (it is swinging a 74 incher on the chute, 36 pitch I think)

Eletric start!

Static thrust numbers are in excess of 300 lbs!at 3800 rpms...This 

is more than a 447 with a 2.58:1 and a 60 inch

Fuel consumption is 1.5 gallon per hour. (Industy rating for 

generator application) and I am certain it is very close.

Electric start Engine, prop,reduction unit and mufflers are right at 100 lbs.

At this time, the engine is NOT modified, it is stock, so the TBO 

for its industrial application will be the same.

He told me just this week he thinks he will be able to deliver the 

whole package to market for about 3500 bucks.

Now, I dont know if a FireFly could stand a 100 lb powerplant 

package and still make 254lbs....but I do know for certain it will 

fly with the weight..and fly very well. A FireStar should be a 

jewell with this package.



Some of you have heard me preach before that the industrial v-twins 

are soon to be a viable powerplant for our sport, and that time is 

very quickly approaching! Fuel consumption will allow ranges like we 

have never seen before on 5 gallons...the noise is so much less than 

we are used to it is unbelievable...and electric start. Not to 

mention the price will be half what a rotax package will cost, and 

the way Rotax is going...likely alot less than half very soon. Most 

of us would never even have to consider an overhaul.....not in 2500 

hours, thats more than a lifetime for 99% of the ultralites



It has also been said that the sport pilot rule has killed the 

ultralight market by so many in the industry I cannot count em all. 

Well, I challenge that reasoning. I believe it is the Cost...Rotax 

engines have doubled in price in the last few years, and I believe 

this is the biggest reason. If a manufacturer could take 30% off an 

ultralite plane/engine cost to the customer, this might be the 

biggest boost the market could get, and with this package...well, 

these developments just might be the revival of the part 103 

aircraft market. here is another prediction...the first company that 

designs an aircraft around a V-twin powerplant package and gets it 

to market, will have a huge success in sales! Buckeye has done this 

with their DragonFly PPC and I hope someone does it with a fixed wing.



--------

Don G.

Central Illinois

Kitfox IV Speedster

Luscombe 8A



http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177521#177521

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

In a message dated 4/17/2008 8:18:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  donghe(at)one-eleven.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Gents,

I dont know if you went down to the Sun'n'fun Gala, and even    if you did you might not have paid much attention to the runner-up to Steve's    FloatFly...The second place winner was a Buckeye  powered parachute with    a v-twin 32 hp generac industrial engine on it. This is the the same kind of    airframe that won the inovation award 	
  

 Don,  I took a good look at it. Very nice job.  Two problems for  the firefly, first it sounds about 15 to 20 lbs too heavy. Second,  most  belt drives do not offer enough extension and the thrust line is a bit high. A  gear reduction usually solves this issue but the 4 stroke harmonics drive the  gears nuts. I wish them luck. We need some alternatives in the UL area.   

 Steve  B

Firefly 007/Floats

Firefly 0040/ Floats 2008 SnF Grand Champion

do  not archive





Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

Steve, 

The issues you point out are definitely concerns. These guys have overcome the 4 stroke pulses by using that  belt drive, and a really slow prop speed that shouldn't work according to what I was taught in school...but it does with that big prop.

I have been considering what I was taught about tip speed and prop efficiency and so on now for a year since I started paying attention to this deal, only to come to the conclusion that either the books were wrong, or the propcarvers have become magicians!

 They believe they are going to get good life. The Honda powered machine at Oshkosh now has alot of hours on it, with no belt problems, abiet, the Generac is larger and more powerful, so it will have a stronger pulse. Time will show.



What the powerplant needs is a new airframe designed around it just as they are putting it together, to support slow turning 74 or 76 inch prop to optimize the thrust, and make the components last along time.



I didnt know Dick Starks had a Valley v-twin on a twinstar...sound interesting.

This assembly from Buckeye should not be confused, and only barely compared with Valley's Generac offering. The workmanship is superb, and the engine is NOT modified. AND it gets alot more thrust.



Jeez....if only Dennis was still designing airplanes......(grin)

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

Don, You hit the nail on the head.

  

 steve

  

  In a message dated 4/17/2008 11:36:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  donghe(at)one-eleven.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  What the    powerplant needs is a new airframe designed around it just as they are putting    it together, to support slow turning 74 or 76 inch prop to optimize the    thrust, and make the components last along  time.



	




Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

mshimei(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

I have been working with Larry at Valley Eng.on my direct drive Generac. It will be installed in an ultrastar in a month or so.The belt reduction version turns too big of a prop,DD is about 54”. Hopefully the weight will be the same as the Cuyuna with 5 more HP…Mark in Florida  

       [quote][b]

Bill_Rayfield(at)southwir
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

OOO, keep us posted - I'm interested in that setup!

The information contained in this communication is the property of Southwire Company and intended only for the use of the addressee.



The information contained in this communication is the property of Southwire Company, may contain confidential or proprietary information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. The unauthorized use, disclosure, forwarding, or copying of this communication or any part thereof, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

At 01:15 PM 4/18/2008, Mark wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  I have been working with Larry at Valley Eng.on my direct drive Generac. It will be installed in an ultrastar in a month or so.The belt reduction version turns too big of a prop,DD is about 54 . Hopefully the weight will be the same as the Cuyuna with 5 more HP 	


 Mark, please DO keep us posted!  I have the Cuyuna in my US and it's running great, but improved fuel economy sure would be nice...



 If it's 60 lbs and 35HP that'd be REALLY amazing!



 -Dana

 

 --

  Help, I've fallen up and I can't get down    [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: New engine package, ( FireFly alternate maybe)

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OOO, keep us posted - I'm interested in that setup!


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   The information contained in this communication is the property of Southwire Company, may contain confidential or proprietary information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. The unauthorized use, disclosure, forwarding, or copying of this communication or any part thereof, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.


	




  Oh Great!!



  Another guy that can tell us something, but then he has to kill us.  We can't win, fer losin'.



Mike Welch



Do Not Archive

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