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Really bad news....S&F crash
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jim.lanier(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

That was tragic. The Yuba City crash was November of 2006. The NTSB has 

yet to finalize the report.



I think all of you should read some of these reports. Either the NTSB is 

incompetent, or just plain disinterested. They hardly ever discover the 

cause of light aircraft mishaps nor do they share pertinent data in 

those reports. If there are eyewitnesses, they typically base their 

final "probable cause" on their statements.



Compare this British report to any of the light aircraft NTSB reports 

and see if you can see my point. (see link below)



http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Zenair%20CH601UL,%20G-YOXI%2005-07.pdf



If you are waiting for an NTSB report...don't hold your breath and don't 

expect any answers.





PLAV8R wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 First time on this site.  The aircraft lost a wing.  I know what the family is going through.  I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my parents from an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac 601XL SLSA.  Beautiful day, sunny, no wind, no turbulence etc. Cruising along going to lunch.

 Question:   Was the Czech Aircraft works aircraft assembled in Georgia?



 Thanks for any information.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178514#178514

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

I noted the statement had the following. Would wonder what was lightened  and 

modified.   Jerry of GA       DO NOT  ARCHIVE

 

"In the early 90s, Heintz entered into a license agreement with Czech  

Aircraft Works of Stare Mesto, Czech

Republic, to produce and market his STOL  CH 701 and ZODIAC CH 601 designs 

for the European market.

The Czech-produced  Zodiacs were modified and lightened to meet European 

rules for "microlight"  aircraft.

CZAW produced some 750 such machines under this agreement."

 

 

In a message dated 4/22/2008 5:11:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  

jim.lanier(at)charter.net writes:




<jim.lanier(at)charter.net>



I just read somewhere that Zenith has  terminated their association with 

the Czech manufacturer.



I found  it



http://www.zenithair.com/news/zen-czaw-termination.pdf

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

Do you have the NTSB report?  is not in this page:

   

  http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/

   

  Also No Signed Message....  Hope you are not playing with us.   Hope is not a Spamer

  If you realy had that loss. Why not sign with Your Name?

   

   

   

  



Jay Maynard <jmaynard(at)conmicro.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jay Maynard 



On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 01:15:27PM -0700, PLAV8R wrote:

[quote] First time on this site. The aircraft lost a wing. I know what the

 family is going through. I went through it Nov. 6th 2006 when I lost my

 parents from an inflight breakup of their Certified AMD Zodiac        Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash

Here's an interesting article:



http://www.tsgc.utexas.edu/archive/general/ethics/vtail.html



Jeff

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

Sorry for this one also...

   

  Saludos

  Gary Gower

  Do not archive.



Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]  Do you have the NTSB report?  is not in this page:

   

  http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/nstb/

   

  Also No Signed Message....  Hope you are not playing with us.   Hope is not a Spamer

  If you realy had that loss. Why not sign with Your Name?

   

   

   

  



Jay Maynard <jmaynard(at)conmicro.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jay Maynard          Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:04:15PM -0700, Gary Gower wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Do you have the NTSB report?  is not in this page:


	


The NTSB has not released a probable cause for the accident that cost

PLAV8R's parents their lives as yet. That's the AMD Zodiac that crashed in

Yuba City, N158MD.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC                   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com      http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (FRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

PLAV8R

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prior Lake, Minnesota

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash

Sorry,  I had a typo on the date......should have been November 4th, 2006.

Here is the NTSB report.



NTSB Identification: LAX07FA026

14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation

Accident occurred Saturday, November 04, 2006 in Yuba City, CA

Aircraft: Aircraft Mfg & Dev. Co. (AMD) CH601XL SLSA, registration: N158MD

Injuries: 2 Fatal.



This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.



On November 4, 2006, about 1139 Pacific standard time, an Aircraft Manufacturing & Development Co., CH601XL SLSA, N158MD, experienced an in-flight breakup while cruising approximately 8 nautical miles south of Yuba City, California. The airplane was destroyed. The private pilot, who was a co-owner of the airplane, and a passenger were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The flight was performed under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91, and it originated from Lincoln, California, about 1129.



A ground-based witness reported hearing the airplane as it approached his location. The witness stated that the airplane's engine was "missing" and its power was "on and off." Seconds later the witness heard the sound of an explosion and observed the center section of the airplane falling straight down. 



All of the airplane's structural components were located in adjacent open fields during the National Transportation Safety Board's on-scene investigation. The wreckage consisted of the following components, which were separated from each other: left wing (without aileron); right wing (with aileron); main landing gear assembly; cockpit, engine with attached propeller blades; aileron (left wing); and empennage. There was no evidence of oil spray on any of the components, and there was no evidence of fire.



The wreckage has been recovered and detailed airframe and engine examinations are ongoing



Regards,

Don

backstagelive(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

"About 1700, a witness, located about 1/2-mile southeast of the accident 

site, observed

the accident airplane as it approached him from the north. He noted that

the airplane was noticeably lower than other airplanes that generally flew

in the area, and that it was in a 3- to 5-degree left bank. The airplane 

then

banked right, about the same magnitude, before it returned level for a 

moment.

About 1 to 3 seconds later, the airplane banked to the left and to the 

right,

significantly steeper than during the previous banks.



After banking back to level, the airplane yawed right, and the "right wing 

folded

up." The airplane banked right and the left wing "went up" just before the

airplane entered a nose dive."



Lets hold off for just a little while yet while we wait for the autopsy 

report. Could the pilot have suffered a medical condition like a heart 

attack or stroke that would have incapasitated him for a few moments? He may 

have been helpless at the controls. I think you could pull the wings off any 

plane if you were slumped over the controls. Does anyone know if the autopsy 

results are in?



Joe in Oshkosh

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

Don, it has been more than 15 months since your parent's tragic accident.

Have you received any information on the progress of the investigation? Any

indication of AMD's involvement in the investigation?



-- Craig

PLAV8R

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prior Lake, Minnesota

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash

Hi Craig,



  No, there has been no update.  Last I heard was they (NTSB) may have a "Probable Cause" by July- Aug.  Parts had been sent to Washington for metallurgical testing etc.  However,  That could be curtailed if any other Zodiac 601 aircraft had similar failures.  

  I can speculate as well as anyone else.  This was a fine day in normal cruise.  Parents were in good health and my father had a lot of flying experience and would not panic.

  There was some history with the aircraft before it even left Eastman, Georgia.  Pitot static system did not work, auto-pilot was assembled wrong, no fluid in the brakes, instruments exchanged with another aircraft, etc.

  My brother flew it from Eastman to Lakeville, Minnesota.  Then flew to Sacrament, Ca.  The plane had appr. 84 hours on it at the time of the accident.  He had to get a new magneto, cylinder replacement (was blowing out seals in the starter, small leak).  The propeller had been attached with the wrong bolts (to long) so even when torqued to spec's it was not tight.  This was noticed during a preflight and a crack was noticed in the prop.

  I could go on.   I am not putting down Chris Heinz, actually I admire him.  My personal non-professional feeling is there was either metal fatigue or an assembly issue.



Regards,

Don

_________________
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
don.dennehey@gmail.com
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash

 	  PLAV8R wrote: 	
		  From the Yuba City incident.



http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=13553(at)kovr.dayport.com



http://www.cbs13.com/video/?id=13559(at)kovr.dayport.com



Regards,

Don 	


Fellow Builders, 



The video footage in the above links shows some details of the post-crash wing root area on one of the separated wings. 



*Please* forgive me if this precipitates unwarranted speculation, but there are some areas of interest visible if you pause the video and then zoom in.  I would venture that we - actual builders - will note things here that the NTSB people did not.



Does anyone know anything about photo enhancement?  Is it possible to get better resolution from this video?



Also, is there anyone out there who has access to more post-crash photos or video footage or other accidents, or perhaps has actually examined Zodiac wreckage and who can make comparisons with details visible in this footage versus what they have seen elsewhere?



Don - thank you for sharing these with us.  



Patrick

XL/Corvair

N63PZ (reserved)

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

Donald, the other day you posted a link to a TV stations report of the accident. Could you please repost it. I did watch it a coule of times and both wings were far away from the fuselage. I want to review it again.... I am truly sorry for your loss.. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "PLAV8R" <donald.j.dennehey(at)seagate.com> wrote:

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PLAV8R" <donald.j.dennehey(at)seagate.com>



Hi Craig,



 No, there has been no update.  Last I heard was they (NTSB) may have a "Probable Cause" by July- Aug.  Parts had been sent to Washington for metallurgical testing etc.  However,  That could be curtailed if any other Zodiac 601 aircraft had similar failures.  

 I can speculate as well as anyone else.  This was a fine day in normal cruise.  Parents were in good health and my father had a lot of flying experience and would not panic.

 There was some history with the aircraft before it even left Eastman, Georgia.  Pitot static system did not work, auto-pilot was assembled wrong, no fluid in the brakes, instruments exchanged with another aircraft, etc.

 My brother flew it from Eastman to Lakeville, Minnesota.  Then flew to Sacrament, Ca.  The plane had appr. 84 hours on it at the time of the accident.  He had to get a new magneto, cylinder replacement (was blowing out seals in the starter, small leak).  The propeller had been attached with the wrong bolts (to long) so even when torqued to spec's it was not tight.  This was noticed during a preflight and a crack was noticed in the prop.

 I could go on.   I am not putting down Chris Heinz, actually I admire him.  My personal non-professional feeling is there was either metal fatigue or an assembly issue.



Regards,

Don



--------

Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.

Prior Lake, Minnesota

Cessna 175  N7656M

Cessna 140  N90123





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.================================================================================================;        - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================sp;                       &nb=============================================

 



_____________________________________________________________

Click for free info on getting an MBA, $200K/ year potential.

   [quote][b]

PLAV8R

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Prior Lake, Minnesota

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash

I do have post accident photos.  I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file to the forum.

If you want me to send them to you email me at:

donald.j.dennehey(at)seagate.com

Maybe someone else will have better luck.



The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.

the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in the report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail section.

I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area.  I believe the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.

They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.

I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to.  If it is at the attach fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.



Regards,

Don

_________________
Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.
don.dennehey@gmail.com
Prior Lake, Minnesota
Cessna 175 N7656M
Cessna 140 N90123

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

I've received the pics from Don and will pass them on to Matt for upload to

the photo sharing area of the forum. Generally it takes Matt a few days to

do this.



-- Craig



--

jim.lanier(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

DO NOT ARCHIVE



If you send the zip to me, I will put it on my ftp server with a link so 

that others can download it.



Jim



PLAV8R wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I do have post accident photos.  I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file to the forum.

 If you want me to send them to you email me at:

 donald.j.dennehey(at)seagate.com

 Maybe someone else will have better luck.



 The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.

 the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in the report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail section.

 I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area.  I believe the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.

 They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.

 I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to.  If it is at the attach fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.



 Regards,

 Don



 --------

 Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.

 Prior Lake, Minnesota

 Cessna 175  N7656M

 Cessna 140  N90123





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178711#178711

johnd(at)data-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

Don was kind enough to send me his pictures and I've emailed them to the 

Zenith Photoshare so they should be available soon.



After reviewing them they seem to point to a different failure mode that 

the pictures I have seen from the Polk City accident. In the Polk city 

accident the wings were still attached to the fuselage but were bent 

along the spar. In this accident the wings aren't bent but rather are 

separated from the fuselage and one picture shows the wing and the 

mangled middle portion of the spar together. The other wing spar is 

broken off at the innermost bolt hole on the top spar cap and the bottom 

cap is missing from the wing.



The fuselage looks broken apart and separated just in front of the main 

gear channel. It looks like the whole thing just came apart at that 

point and around the spar carrythrough. Pretty scary looking.



It will be interesting to see what the NTSB has to say.



John Davis

601XL - Jab 3300



PLAV8R wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I do have post accident photos.  I have tried in vain to attach a ZIP file to the forum.

 If you want me to send them to you email me at:

 donald.j.dennehey(at)seagate.com

 Maybe someone else will have better luck.



 The components were spread out over a large area on a 15 acre orchard.

 the wings were probably one hundred yards from one another. As they say in the report, right wing, left wing, firewall forward, cockpit, and tail section.

 I did not see any sign of fire, oil spray or trauma in the cockpit area.  I believe the bottom opened up and my parents exited through the bottom.

 They were found about 50ft or so on either side of the engine.

 I wonder what they connect the ballistic parachutes to.  If it is at the attach fitting they may save the plane and not the occupants.



 Regards,

 Don



 --------

 Donald J. Dennnehey Jr.

 Prior Lake, Minnesota

 Cessna 175  N7656M

 Cessna 140  N90123





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=178711#178711

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

John



The bottom cap was missing from the wing? Did AMD not install a bottom 

cap? I am puzzled by this statement.



Kevin Bonds



John Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Don was kind enough to send me his pictures and I've emailed them to 

 the Zenith Photoshare so they should be available soon.



  The other wing spar is broken off at the innermost bolt hole on the 

 top spar cap and the bottom cap is missing from the wing.

  



 John Davis

 601XL - Jab 3300

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

johnd(at)data-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

Hi Kevin,

If you look at the left wing in pictures 30 & 33 you'll see the bottom 

spar cap is missing. I'm assuming it was ripped off in the accident but 

you never know. The top spar cap is fractured at the innermost bolt hole.

It was certainly a catastrophic event to cause both wings to separate, 

the fuselage to break away from the firewall forward, etc.

John

Kevin Bonds wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 John

 The bottom cap was missing from the wing? Did AMD not install a bottom 

 cap? I am puzzled by this statement.

 Kevin Bonds

 John Davis wrote:

> 

>

> Don was kind enough to send me his pictures and I've emailed them to 

> the Zenith Photoshare so they should be available soon.

>

>  The other wing spar is broken off at the innermost bolt hole on the 

> top spar cap and the bottom cap is missing from the wing.

>  

>

> John Davis

> 601XL - Jab 3300

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Really bad news....S&F crash

The facts will come.



How long have you been saying this now? Just curious.



 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Because of the proximity to SnF there's little doubt that better information will come from this accident than the previous ones. And if not better at least more.



As many have said let's not guess or listen to untrained eye-witnesses. The facts will come.

Gus(at)flywithgus.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Really bad news....S&F crash

It should say bottom cap was torn from the wing and still attached to 

the center section carry through.



Kevin Bonds wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The bottom cap was missing from the wing? Did AMD not install a bottom 

 cap? I am puzzled by this statement.

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