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lwhitlow
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Valparaiso Indiana
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 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Unintended Consequences, and this outside engineering Plan |
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I copied my post from another thread to a thread of its own to help us focus a discussion on the merits of this outside engineering review. I apologize in advance for the long post.
I hope everyone realizes that Zenith aircraft has a vested interest in making sure the 601XL design is safe. I'm confident that everyone at the factory is as concerned as we are and want to make sure they've done everything possible to give us a safe aircraft. I've flown with Nick in the factory demonstrator, and I cannot believe anyone would think for one second that Nick would continue to take people flying in an aircraft that he or the rest of the staff at Zenith thought was unsafe. There is to much at stake for that to happen
I do understand your desire to be confident in the design and safety of the 601XL. Like you I have a $17500 kit that I want to be able to fly safely.
But if you proceed with the analysis under the terms you have stated below, You will destroy not only your own investment of both time and money but you will destroy everyone else's investments in their aircraft as well, NO MATTER WHAT THE ENGINEERING REPORT HAS TO SAY!!
Curious?? I'll explain.
If the analysis is done and a completed report exists then....
If the results of the report are only seen by the "contributors" A giant unanswered question hangs over the aircraft, Is it OK??? Has a problem been found? Are there modifications suggested?? This will weaken the "airplane shopping publics" opinion of the aircraft, and perhaps be enough to make them choose another aircraft with "less of an unknown factor". Even if the report says every things A-OK, the very fact that its a secret, will deter buyers. If this choice occurs enough times then Zenith ceases production and support of the 601XL or perhaps ceases business all together. I'm sure we can all agree that this would not be a desirable outcome.
Also a engineering report known only to some of the fleet of 601XL devalues them all. Questions will arise? Do you know about the report? Have you made modifications based on the report? Once again confusion and unknowns take over and we all loose.
More importantly Lets say the report reveals something that should be addressed, and you get your secret copy. Are you, ( a builder, a pilot, an aviation enthusiast) actually going to let another pilot or builder fly a machine that you know has a problem and NOT TELL HIM OR HER ABOUT IT!!! That's not what the sport aviation community should be all about. Could you live with yourself knowing you could have prevented a tragedy but did nothing because the other person didn't contribute to the funding of this witch hunt. By the way what if some people contribute less than others to the funding of this report??? Are you only going to give them part of the data? Maybe the higher dollar contributors get the data first and its held from the lower dollar contributors for a period of time. And what if Zenith disagrees with these results or changes?? Who are you going to trust???? If you say the outside engineer. Sell your kit or plane now, because if something else happens after the report is out and mods are made you really won't know who is correct.
And of course if the report says "everything is fine" Now What? Its a secret, so all of the bad things listed above still happen, and the shrill voices calling for a redesign or "beef up" or whatever continue un-abated. AND WE ALL STILL LOOSE.
The sport aviation community is about helping yourself and others fly enjoyably and safely. A secret report will do none of that and quite possibly be the beginning of the end of our hobby and pastime as we know it. I hope than my son will be able to learn to fly and to build his own airplane someday. This has all the earmarks of seriously damaging something that I dearly love to do.
Any crash or problem with a amateur built experimental aircraft affects us all. If we don't take good care and be as responsible as we possibly can within the rules currently in place, then the not so interested government WILL step in and make things harder for all of us.
I seen posts recently with all sorts of speculation, guesses, critical observations, and truly useful thoughts and suggestions, I think the discussion is valid and useful as long as it is the open exchange of ideas and working towards a common goal of a safe and fun airplane
But, I implore all of you to not give into fear and hysteria while we search for a cause or problem. Statements like "As far as Yuba City, I'm almost willing to say case closed. and 601XL- how long?- till R.I.P." have no place. We only know what we see in one set of pictures and what limited reports that have been released by the FAA. Analyzing such a limited data set takes time. The FAA has not stated a cause, the designer of the aircraft has not sated a cause. The manufacturer of the kit has not stated a cause, yet some people on this very forum want to put themselves above all of those knowledgeable and qualified people and say that there is a problem because they have managed to scrape together $18000 and buy a kit. It almost makes the statement, "are you an engineer?? No but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night" seem reasonable.
I would rather take contributions up to send Sabrina to the finest aviation and engineering schools in the world. Its people like her we need to be encouraging if we want to be able to pursue our hobby and to pass on the joy of flight to generations to come. We need younger people to be excited by piloting your own aircraft, and to be able to afford to do it. Look around you own EAA Chapters. How many up and comers do you have attending?
FUD Fear Uncertainty Doubt. These are not the characteristics you look for in a pilot. Seems to me we need to address this before we move on to metallurgy and tensile strength.
///Flame suit on cause I know I'm gonna catch heat for this
Larry Whitlow
Valparaiso IN
601XL Builder
Pilot since Age 15 Solo'ed on my 16th birthday Dad had to drive me to the Airport, because I couldn't get my drivers license for another month
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pavel569
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Unintended Consequences, and this outside engineering Pl |
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Well said Larry. I agree 100%.
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_________________
Pavel
CA
Zodiac 601XL
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings, fuselage, canopy done ...
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: Unintended Consequences, and this outside engineering Plan |
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Also there is zero chance that the final report (no matter what it contains)
won't be leaked eventually.
As to liability, anyone can sue anyone for any reason (winning is another
story). But litigants go after the ones with large assets or liability
insurance. In the John Denver case the heirs sued the maker of the fuel
selector valve and the supplier (Aircraft Spruce) but NOT the guy who built
the plane and placed the valve in an extremely awkward location. The result
was a confidential settlement for the usual "undisclosed sum and no
assumption of guilt".
-- Craig
--
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ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Unintended Consequences, and this outside engineering Pl |
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The more I think about this, the more I agree. Lawyers already ruined general avaition, no sense letting one buy another waterfront home in Boca Raton (and an original restored P-51 Mustang as a trophy for a 'job(?) well done') and in the process ruin homebuilding for everyone else. Too many lawyers in this country and not enough real producing workers like homebuildes themselves. As soon as I saw someone in the analysis group mention a lawyer, that's time to do a 180 on that noise. Drop the issue, shut up and build your plane or sell or scrap it if you don't want to build it. BUT DO NOT LET THE SPOILS OF GENUINE HARD WORK GO TO LAZY PARASITIC LAWYERS THAT ARE AFRAID OF A HAMMER AND COULDN'T SURVIVE 3 SECONDS IN A WORLD WITHOUT SOMEONE TO LEACH OFF OF.
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