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Cat36Fly(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: Gear Legs |
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General Question to all;
Have A MkIII X with the aluminum gear legs. On occasion the plane wants to nose over, especially when loaded with a couple of fairly big guys (175 +200). I know there were some problems like this when the MKIIIx came out but I haven't heard about any lately. Is this do to the new steel gear legs that has moved the wheels forward. I am considering installing them but would like to get some feed back on the pro's and con's of the new legs.
Thanks
Larry Tasker
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
[quote][b]
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airspeedx3(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Gear Legs |
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Larry,
I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, fairly easily.
Brian, at TNK tech support, was VERY helpful in informing me of all the ramifications of the gear leg changes. He gave me some the background information, plus made some measurements for me (of the new yellow Xtra's wings, hor. stab., etc.)
The result: I could not be happier! My MkIII now sits up almost 6" taller at the fuselage. The wheels sit about 3" to 4" further forward, and maybe 12" wider overall stance (not exactly sure about the stance, it's just a guess, because I didn't actually measure the old stance---I'm just going by what it looks like)
In MY opinion, if you made the change to the steel legs, I believe you'd wonder why you had not done it a lot earlier. The wheels will sit a few inches further forward, a little wider stance, and best of all...taller.
The New Kolb sells the steel legs, as I am sure you are already aware. The factory legs will significantly alleviate the ailments you mentioned, no doubt. But, if for some reason, you want the wheels to be even more forward than the factory's legs, then you could make your own, as I did.
If you want the wheels to be even more than 3"-4", let me know. I can tell you how to fix it so that if you make your own, you can do that.
Whether you go with the factory legs, or go to the trouble of making your own, I'm certain you will like the improvement!! But, realize there a couple of minor modifications you'll also need to include in your project.
First of all, when adding the longer steel legs, your plane's wings will have too high of a "rake", in the taxi position. In other words, there's too much incidence in the wing's mounting angle. The high angle works for the shorter aluminum legs, but if you go to the taller steel legs, you'll need to drill new holes on the wing's mounting tabs, to take some of the incidence out of the angle. (For more details, contact me off-list).
Secondly, by adjusting the main wing's incidence, this will cause the angle of the horizontal stabilizers to be off, too. For the aluminum legs, the front edge of the hor. stab's are mounted quite high at their front mounting spot on the boom tube. If you go to steel legs, that front mounting height has to be lowered a couple of inches, or so. The enclosed attachment is something I put together from some nice gents who were kind enough to make some measurements for me. Again, for more information, contact me off-list...I can help decipher it for you).
I hope this information is a little helpful. I've also enclosed a picture of my steel legs installed. Although I do NOT have an Xtra, you get the idea of what I've built. You may note that I haven't adjusted the wing's incidence, yet.
For those that care, I'm almost finished with my fiberglass droop tips. More on that later.
Larry, like I said, if you decide you absolutely just have to build your own steel legs, rather than buy them, I have a compendium of information, to help make the process painless.
Mike Welch
Kolb MkIII CX
Cat36Fly(at)aol.com wrote:
[quote] General Question to all;
Have A MkIII X with the aluminum gear legs. On occasion the plane wants to nose over, especially when loaded with a couple of fairly big guys (175 +200). I know there were some problems like this when the MKIIIx came out but I haven't heard about any lately. Is this do to the new steel gear legs that has moved the wheels forward. I am considering installing them but would like to get some feed back on the pro's and con's of the new legs.
Thanks
Larry Tasker
Be a better friend, newshound, and
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Gear Legs |
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[quote]
Larry,
I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, fairly easily.
Mike,
I have been wanting the steel legs for some time. I had thought last year that I had a source for the steel legs, but it didn't pan out, and TNK hadn't offered theirs at the time. Terry Davis had a extra set that he kindly let me have at a very reasonable price. I do like them a lot. The weakest part of the old Kolb design was the legs. Due to the angle forward that they set, if something goes wrong then that leg stabs into the ground causing substantial problems. However I understand why it was designed that way, but I would prefer to take my chances with sturdier legs.
I question that you would need to change the wing incidence However, when the plane is up on its gear the wing incidence is the same whether the legs are long or short. In the two flights that I have made with mine since my last completion, I can find no difference at all in any of the flight charactistics.
Thanks for the offer
Larry C
[b]
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Gear Legs |
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Larry, my $.02 worth on Mike's behalf;The incidence change has more to do with airflow change than longer legs.
Since he has reconfigured the nose ala Xtra there is more downthrust forward of the CG.
I believe the factory Xtra also has the different incidence. I am going to give it a try on my
modified MkIII too even though it doesn't have as wide a nose as the Xtra.
The stock MkIII nose bowl, having a large radius front enables the air to easily flow
to a lower pressure area- a very good design.
My plane, although modestly powered, exhibits an uncomfortable and nearly indescribable
sensation over 70 MPH. You can feel a sort of struggling oscillation going on that makes you
want to slow back down. At 65 no problem.
I attribute this to the pointy nose and very wide, transitioning to nearly flat, windshield
creating a lot of downthrust (that doesn't occur with a stock nose and windshield)
Just my opinion but when I do lower those leading edges I'll give a report on what happened.
BB
On 4, May 2008, at 1:59 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
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Larry,
I'm not sure what you've read recently (last three months), but the subject of steel gear legs has been discussed extensively. I decided to make my own steel gear legs, like a few others have done, and one of them (John Bickham) was kind enough to supply me with sizes, measurements, drawings, pictures, etc. I had enough useful information to be able to tackle the job of making my own, fairly easily.
Mike,
I have been wanting the steel legs for some time. I had thought last year that I had a source for the steel legs, but it didn't pan out, and TNK hadn't offered theirs at the time. Terry Davis had a extra set that he kindly let me have at a very reasonable price. I do like them a lot. The weakest part of the old Kolb design was the legs. Due to the angle forward that they set, if something goes wrong then that leg stabs into the ground causing substantial problems. However I understand why it was designed that way, but I would prefer to take my chances with sturdier legs.
I question that you would need to change the wing incidence However, when the plane is up on its gear the wing incidence is the same whether the legs are long or short. In the two flights that I have made with mine since my last completion, I can find no difference at all in any of the flight charactistics.
Thanks for the offer
Larry C
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: gear legs |
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for comparison:
a locally based MkIII (with steel factory legs)
DSCN1166.JPG
my duck-billed creation:
welded steel tube windshield posts
more foot room on the rudder pedals.
It all comes apart with 10-32 screws
DSCN1158.JPG copy
<pre><b><font size color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: Gear Legs |
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[quote] ---
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bill_joe(at)bellsouth.net
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Gear Legs |
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This is for Mike Welch,sorry guys I don't have his e-mail. Mike would you send me pictures on how you did your wheel pants off list. My e-mail is bill_joe(at)bellsouth.net (bill_joe(at)bellsouth.net) Thanks
Bill Futrell
Do Not Archive
[quote] ---
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John Bickham
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Gear Legs |
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Mike mentioned that I had supplied him with some helpful information in his fabrication of his gear legs.
Just so there is no misunderstanding.....
A lot of the information and improvements that I passed on, I received from John and Brother Jim Hauck.
Just got to give credit, where credit is due.
Thanks again John H and Bro Jim.
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_________________
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for. |
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