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Z-19 Item Clarification
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longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Bob or someone who has already done this...



1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the diagram

does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a (2-10) or

(2-11)?

2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3) do

I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment is

close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3?



3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?

Thanks,

Glenn,

Subaru powered Lancair Legacy



Do not archive

rshannon

Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 62

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:06 AM,  <longg(at)pjm.com (longg(at)pjm.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -...

 1. The DC Power Master Off/Bat/Bat + Alt switch depicted on the diagram

 does print clearly in terms of the switch number. Is that a (2-10) or

 (2-11)? 	


It's S700-2-10 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 2. I have the 48 point B & C grounding block on instrument panel (G3) do

 I need to bother with the avionics ground bus? All of my equipment is

 close by and I have 48 connections there anyway, why not use G3? 	


No need for a separate avionics ground bus. 



 

 	  Quote: 	
		    3. What is the B & C part number for the alternate e-bus feed relay?

 	




The B&C S704-1 will work well. Small, light, and low current drain. (Depending on your architecture, if the E-bus load isn't too large, you may not need a relay.)

Ron  [quote][b]

Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

What kind of Subaru Glenn?  I am trying to nail down my Z19RB/Eggenfellner

Hybrid wiring diagram.



Allen Fulmer

RV7 w/Eggenfellner E6Ti on firewall

Wiring/Avionics

Alexander City, AL 35010

[quote]>>--

_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Excellent,

 Thanks  Ron

 [quote]   

   --

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Custom built - the H6 Egg was too heavy for my design, so we decided to

build our own. Funny, I too am trying to compare the two electrical

designs and make one that compliments both schematics. Since my engine

is lighter but more powerful than the Egg crate, I will be installing my

batteries up front which will save a bunch of Saturdays snaking wires to

the rear. Keep in touch, it would be fun to compare designs when

finished. At some point I will start taking pictures and post on my

blog.



Glenn



--

Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Custom H6 or a 4 cylinder?



[quote]>>--

_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Wow, Glenn



"Lighter but more powerful than the Egg", how did you do it? Can you share

details?



Carlos



Do not archive



[quote] --

sshook(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

For my Z19/Egg Hybrid wiring, I used all of Jan's recommendations for

supplying electrical power to the engine ECU, prop, and fuel pumps.  The Z19

part comes in with the other components in the electrical system.  It's not

totally complete, but if you want a look and have TurboCad or a DXF or DWG

reader, I would be happy to send it.



Disclaimer:  I am not flying, and the drawing has not been peer reviewed

yet.



				

Scott R. Shook

RV-7A (Building)

N696JS (Reserved)

--

riggs_la(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

I would like it and I can read DWG. 

 

 

Lynn A. Riggs

http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html 



 ---

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

2.3-2.5 supercharged. I am at the same position - working through the

wires.



--

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Carlos,

If you have H6 you have a heavy motor. Egg claims - oh it's about the

same weight as the 360, that's B.S. unless you don't add oil and throw

away the starter, alt etc. IMO - The Lycoming 360 is available in some

30 different configurations and you can get the same power that Egg gets

out of the H6 for 50+ lbs less. They both burn the same fuel and with

the Lycoming you win with weight, reliability and no coolant issues.

Those Egg guys are forever fighting the high temps.



I am working with a 4 cylinder which will be gently aspirated to 180-200

hp. My engine will be 100 lbs less than the H6. Yes, the H6 may last a

few hours longer blah blah, but I don't need the baggage. We have

developed a cooling oil/water system which I think is superior to the

Egg job. No issues to date. At some point I'll cover up the secrets and

take some pictures.



Ok, now back to these wires 



--

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Scott,

	I did some review again yesterday and I believe you are on the

right track. The two can compliment each other. Bob goes further in

supporting additional equipment. I am  basing my setup on Bob's model,

but will use the starter, alternator bypass from Jan's drawing. I will

not use the big 200A anl's between the battery. As Bob would point out

the disconnect needs to come from the crowbar OV, not the battery. If

Jan's model protects the battery but not the system you haven't gained

anything. If the alternator is about to detonate the battery, you'd

better catch it long before the ANL blows. If my system is doing

anything but 13.7 - 14.5 Bob's model will let you know about it or

respond to it. Under normal circumstances good monitoring far exceeds

the value of waiting until the battery is overloaded or worse.



When you look at what Bob has written and transpose it over Jan's model,

they really accomplish the same goal. Jan is eliminating the starter

contactor which I think has other advantages as far as wiring. Bob has

added OV protection and notification of system variances which makes for

better monitoring. Jan's model is sort of wiring for dummies. It will

definitely work, but it's not a good solution for control freaks. Also,

Jan likes that big expensive 4P3T 12 position switch which to me is just

a big $$$ single point of failure. So when you break it down you can

probably create the best of both by combining efforts.



 If you like we can be your peers!  Attach a copy when you get a chance.



Glenn Long

Lancair Legacy FG

N3UH



--

sshook(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

I have attached my electrical diagram.  It was made with TurboCad Pro 14 and

it's a .DWG.  There was some issues getting some people to read it before,

if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.



Suggestions and critiques are welcome.  It's only about 97% complete and the

notes section is not incorporated yet.



Notes:



I have Bob's crowbar OV module incorporated into my electrical diagram to

counter a runaway alternator.  



I did the 200ANL's for same reasons Gary from Eggenfellner pointed out in

the Installation Manual.  If you ever have a short along those fat wires,

those ANL's will blow before big sparks start flying and fires start.  If I

recall correctly, Brian DeFord (here at CHD) lost his beautiful Cozy MK-IV

to a chaffed fat wire coming from the battery. No detonating battery - just

a chafed wire heated up and by the time he smelled the smoke (he was

standing outside the plane) the fire was started and it burned his plane to

the ground.



As far as using the $40 4P3T Honeywell switch...That is another item that

comes from Eggenfellner.  As of March, Jan was discouraging the use of any

diode bridge rectifiers to supply the emergency power to the ECU.  In fact,

I think it's now "not supported" because of an off field incident with an

inadequate diode.  I have to agree with this logic.  Those Honeywell

switches are pretty hard core and if you are not switching back and forth 10

times every flight (limiting your testing to 50 or 100hr intervals) that

switch will last quite a long time.  Downside to this solution is that I

have an 'always hot' connection running up to that switch behind the panel.

I can live with that as long as the wire is marked as such.



My annunciator is just a bunch of Stanley LED light bars mounted to a

project board behind a reverse engraved acrylic.  They are either powered on

when a switch comes on or when a ground closes (e.g. alternator failure

sense).



Everything else is pretty basic - Klixon breakers, AML-34 switches, OV

Crowbar, low voltage warning. There are really only 2 power busses, main bus

and avionics bus.  The essential power for engine is through the

aforementioned switch and comes either directly from the battery or the main

bus - then to the switch - then to the breakers - then to the component.



There is no voltage indication if have switched electrical feeds for the

engine.  My primary reason, if I have thrown that 4P3T switch - it means my

alternator has failed 20 minutes ago and I have already drained my primary

battery.  I should have already found a suitable landing location.

				

Scott R. Shook

RV-7A (Building)

N696JS (Reserved)



--

N696JS_-_Electrical_Layout.dwg

Description:

Download

Filename:

N696JS_-_Electrical_Layout.dwg

Filesize:

111.25 KB

Downloaded:

426 Time(s)

rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

SolidWorks 2007 (which can read "normal" DXF and DWG files) doesn't like

your file.  Here is the error message:



	"Invalid or Incomplete DXF/DWG input file.  Unable to continue

import transpation."



AlphaCam V7 likewise refuses to open the file



	"DWG read error:-9999"

Try saving the file in the "universal" DXF format.

Best regards,



Rob Housman

Irvine, CA 

Europa XS Tri-Gear

A070

Airframe complete

--

sshook(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Here is the DXF file.



				

Scott R. Shook

RV-7A (Building)

N696JS (Reserved)



--

N696JS_-_Electrical_Layout.dxf

Description:

Download

Filename:

N696JS_-_Electrical_Layout.dxf

Filesize:

2.93 KB

Downloaded:

382 Time(s)

rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Now I get a different error message from SolidWorks 2007:



	"Error: Invalid Dwg. Version

	Unable to open the requested file (followed by the path)

	Only drawing versions 2.5 through version 2005 are supported"



..which appears to be a problem with SolidWorks and not your file because

AlphaCam can now read the file.



Others should likewise be able to read your file with the correct software.

Best regards,



Rob Housman

Irvine, CA 

Europa XS Tri-Gear

A070

Airframe complete



--

hooverra(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Scott,

	I was unable to open it with ACAD R14 or Intellicad (Airplane PDQ)

which usually opens some newer ACAD files 2000 up. I have not tried ACAD

2008. You might try DXF or Print to a PDF if you have access to Acrobat or

another PDF writer.

Ralph & Laura Hoover

RV7A N527LR



--

hooverra(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Still no joy!!

Ralph



--

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

At 12:24 PM 5/7/2008 -0700, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have attached my electrical diagram.  It was made with TurboCad Pro 14 and

it's a .DWG.  There was some issues getting some people to read it before,

if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.


	


   PDF is as close to a universal print format as you can get.

   If you have Acrobat, you can print your CAD drawing to that.

   If you don't have a pdf generator, goto



http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp



   and get CutePDF Writer. Be sure to read and follow

   the installation requirements. Theres a conversion

   utility you need too.



   I've used these for years with excellent performance.

   They're free for the downloading.



   Bob. . .

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Z-19 Item Clarification

Attached is a pdf of the file.

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>

 At 12:24 PM 5/7/2008 -0700, you wrote:

> I have attached my electrical diagram.  It was made with TurboCad Pro 

> 14 and

> it's a .DWG.  There was some issues getting some people to read it 

> before,

> if anyone knows of a better, more universal format, let me know.

   PDF is as close to a universal print format as you can get.

   If you have Acrobat, you can print your CAD drawing to that.

   If you don't have a pdf generator, goto

 http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp

   and get CutePDF Writer. Be sure to read and follow

   the installation requirements. Theres a conversion

   utility you need too.

   I've used these for years with excellent performance.

   They're free for the downloading.

   Bob. . .

N696JS_-_Electrical_Layout_Model_(1).pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

N696JS_-_Electrical_Layout_Model_(1).pdf

Filesize:

119.2 KB

Downloaded:

356 Time(s)

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

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