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Another XL Down - Brazil
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Iberplanes

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Hi list, 

  

 I´m so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal  accident. This time it was an XL in Brazil 

  

 Alberto Martin

Iberplanes IGL 

http://www.iberplanes.es

Igualada -  Barcelona - España



  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

MHerder

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil

Do you know when the incident occurred? or any other information?  I seem to recall recently that another list member had just made first flights in Brazil I believe..

_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Here is a translations from Google:



 



“Our friend Lopes, fell and died with the Zodiac XL like us to help build.

The accident was only yesterday afternoon and was found today. Conversei

only today with the Dal Magro who was the engineer who accompanied him in

construction and in test flights and the information he gave me is that a

witness saw a ranch that he was in level flight to + / - 3500 ft and entered

a spiral and fell to almost 90 °. Arrazado and I am very sad to have lost a

great friend, we will monitor everything closely and we will try to find out

what happened. We will make a serious and impartial investigation, those who

know me know the seriousness of our work. My feelings for their relatives,

particularly his wife, Rosana, who both helped in that dream. 

Travel together to Sun'n Fun and he was passionate by plane.”



 



-- Craig



 



From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Iberplanes IGL

Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:50 AM

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Another XL Down - Brazil



 



Hi list, 



 



I´m so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This time it

was an XL in Brazil 



 



Alberto Martin

Iberplanes IGL 

http://www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - España



 



 



---

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

By my bad Portugese, it went into heavy clouds at 3500 ft and spun in.



Juan



--

stshuck2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Translated message

  Good afternoon. Tragedy. Our Lopes friend, fell and died with Zodiac XL that we help it to construct. The accident was yesterday the afternoon and today it was only found. I only talked today with the Lean Dal that was the engineer whom it in the construction and the voos of test folloied and the information that it gave to me is that a witness of a farm saw that it was in voo been even +/- 3500 ft and entered in a spiral and fell 90º almost. I am arrazado and very sad for having lost a great friend, we go to follow everything of close and we go to try to discover what it happened. We will make a serious inquiry and impartial, the ones that know me know of the seriousness of our work. My familiar feelings to its, in special one the wife of it, Rosana, that as much  helped it in this dream. We travel together for Sun'n Fun and it it was gotten passionate by the airplane. AirBeto Airfox. That tragedy...

Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> wrote:   [quote]    Hi list, 

   

  I´m so sorry to tell you that another XL had a fatal accident. This time it was an XL in Brazil 

   

  Alberto Martin

Iberplanes IGL 

http://www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - España



   

   

  [quote]  ---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

It may have been this plane and pilot. If so he certainly had lots of flying experience.  

   

He sent a “first flight” announcement to the list on 4/26.  

   

-- Craig  

       

From: Roberto Ap. Rodrigues de Brito [mailto:lenabeto(at)uol.com.br] 

 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:49 PM

 To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;

 Subject: Fw: Enviando email: p3240001.jpg, p3240005.jpg  

  

  

     



    

    

Hi guys.  

    

   

    

How are you?  

    

   

    

This is Ricardo Lopes's Zodiac TD by Airfox. (he's my friend)   

    

For me it's beautifull     

    

He flown it today afternoon and he said that the plane is great, nice.  

    

He is an Agricultural Pilot and he has 18.500 hours as pilot.  

    

   

    

Rgds.  

    

   

    

Beto.

p3240001.jpg

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swater6

Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Minnesota-KMIC/KANE

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=42720

Sad.. it appears that this is Mr. Lopes that posted last week.  Perhaps father and son both involved if this story is correct.  My prayers for them both....

Scott



Below is a Google translation from an article I found on yahoo Brazil.



A single fell in the afternoon of Monday when the council sobrevoava gaucho of capon of Lions, causing the death of the pilot of the aircraft, Wolkwes Ricardo Lopes, of 51 years, and mechanical Valdir Silveira Lopes, 25 years. 



The Fire Brigade received the information about the accident during the morning and began the search today morning. 



In the early afternoon, firefighters were still at the site of the collapse, kills closed and inaccessible, and awaiting the end of the work of experts to remove the bodies of the single. According to a fireman, the unit was completely destroyed.

_________________
601 XL kit N596SW reserved
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage

www.scottwaters.com

Iberplanes

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Some translation:



Original:

 .... informaÃ§Ã£o que ele me deu Ã© que uma testemunha de uma fazenda viu que 

ele estava em voo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft e entrou numa espiral e caiu a 

quase 90Âº.

Spanish:

.. y la informaciÃ³n que Ã©l me dio un testigo  de una hacienda que vio que 

Ã©l estaba en vuelo nivelado a +/- 3500 ft y entrÃ³ en una espiral y se cayÃ³ a 

casi 90Âº.



english:



... and the information given to me by a farmer who saw the plane flying 

leveled at +/-3500 Ft and suddenly went on a decent spiral doing a 90Âº turn 

..



---

_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil

What a tragedy. These guys in Brazil are serious XL builders.



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo-workshop-brazil.html



I have corresponded with Beto of AirFox for the past couple of years. They do very high quality work and make beautiful airplanes.



My sympathy to the family.



Dave Clay

Temple, TX

MHerder

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil

http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/



Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that the 1 1/2" pieces likely used  the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.  Is this correct?  I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at the site.  Take a look at the receipts and let me know what y'all think.  I haven't heard of this alloy but I will look it up for sure. Especially since Chris's latest letter eludes to the usage of improper materials. 



Oh, BTW I googled the alloy and found a bunch of scuba tanks that were made from the alloy have been exploding.  But I'm no metalurgist or accident investigator... Just a concerned Zodiac builder.

_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying

MHerder

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Another XL Down - Brazil

http://www.thermaflo.com/engref_mech.shtml



So according to this table of values the 6351 appears to be stronger little stronger in tensile but has a lower fatigue endurance limit.  Does anyone know how fatigue enurance limit would be measured?

_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Michael,

The Chris Heintz letter also mentions that the European spar and caps 

may be of a smaller section because of the UL mandates.  This would 

explain the progressive

nature of the cracks and final pop that let the wings go.  The 6351-T6 

is only 92% the endurance strength of 6061-T6 and if the sections are 

thinner or lesser, you

have found the smoking gun that explains "wing failure".  Add to this 

the quick-time construction of an overseas supplier/manufacturer and 

whatever shortcuts they

may have introduced,,,, This may all be understood eventually.



Again, stay with the plans and the original design to be completely safe.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

MHerder wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 http://www.thermaflo.com/engref_mech.shtml



 So according to this table of values the 6351 appears to be stronger little stronger in tensile but has a lower fatigue endurance limit.  Does anyone know how fatigue enurance limit would be measured?



 --------

 One Rivet at a Time!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181585#181585

William Dominguez

Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Also, it seems that this plane had a BRS chute:



http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/images.html



Check the last picture of the first row, the one with the word SIRAC. I think SIRAC is the initials the use for BRS.



If that is the case, I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could recover the plane on time or got incapacitated. 



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom 



MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "MHerder" 



http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/



Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that the 1 1/2" pieces likely used  the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.  Is [quote][b]

_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

It was indeed Ricardo's airplane. The site of the accident is a few kilometres from Pelotas, the city where he lived (and where I lived for about a year back in the late sixties).

In this satellite image you can identify the hangar and tank that appear in the pictures that Craig posted.

 http://tinyurl.com/6zl9tt



Ricardo and I exchanged a few notes over the past several months. He seemed like a very nice guy, and very passionate about his XL and aviation in general.

 

Life sucks.

Carlos

CH601-HD, plans.



2008/5/6 Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>:

[quote]              

It may have been this plane and pilot. If so he certainly had lots of flying experience.  

   

He sent a "first flight" announcement to the list on 4/26.  

   

-- Craig



[b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

>  I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could recover the plane on time or got incapacitated. 

 

   

I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The mechanic could have pulled the chute.  

   

Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have wet wing:  

   

http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%20Zodiac%20429.jpg  

   

-- Craig  [quote] [b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

This aircraft had many mods that were intended to bring a light aircraft 

into much faster operating speeds and weights than

the controls and linkages provided for the standard 601.  Nice looking, 

but bold mods that could put safety issues up front.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 *> * I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could 

 recover the plane on time or got incapacitated.



 **



 *I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The 

 mechanic could have pulled the chute.*



 * *



 *Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have 

 wet wing:*



 * *



 *http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%20Zodiac%20429.jpg*



 * *



 *-- Craig*



 * *

jshep00(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

If a wing also came off this 601, I for one find this totally unacceptable. 

There should be much more tolerance than a few percent of strength 

difference built  into the design.  There has to be many more 601's out 

there with similiar mods, changes.  This was not an old-stress fatigued 

aircraft. A cessna 172 is rated +3.8 -1.52 at gross. They don't have a 

history of falling out of the sky.by losing a wing even at 5-10,000 hrs of 

air time.If it was a stall-spin, I wonder if the 15 Degree elevator stop was 

installed?

---

William Dominguez

Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

You are right, there was passenger on board. The picture in the link shows the BRS compartment, maybe it was just the compartment but the BRS might have not be installed yet. We will eventually know.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL

Miami Florida

http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom



Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com> wrote:[quote]            <![endif]-->       <![endif]-->     >  I wonder why he didn't pull the chute. Maybe he though he could recover the plane on time or got incapacitated. 

 

 

  I thought that one report said that the pilot and mechanic died. The mechanic could have pulled the chute.

   

  Also speaking of modifications, the plane linked to appears to have wet wing:

   

  http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/24-03-2007/Partes%20do%20Zodiac%20429.jpg

   

  [b]

_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Doesn't seem they were using avex rivets either. What's up with these? 

http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/rebites-nota2.jpg



Kevin Bonds



MHerder wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/



 Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that the 1 1/2" pieces likely used  the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.  Is this correct?  I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at the

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

cndmovn(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Another XL Down - Brazil

Just looked on the Emhart website and the rivets they manufacture are POP brand rivets that according to the website are not specified for aviation, but instead RV's and boats.....

Typical Applications                    Air bags                     
Appliances                     
Overhead doors                     
Truck trailers                     
Acoustical ceiling                     
Personal watercraft                     
Overhead lighting                     
RVsThe website is:



http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/rivets.asp



Not sure if they were used in the plane, but they should not have been.

 



On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Kevin Bonds <kevinbonds(at)comcast.net (kevinbonds(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Kevin Bonds <kevinbonds(at)comcast.net (kevinbonds(at)comcast.net)>

 

 Doesn't seem they were using avex rivets either. What's up with these? http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/fotos/rebites-nota2.jpg

  

 Kevin Bonds

 

 MHerder wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Zenith-List message posted by: "MHerder" <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com (michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com)>

 

 http://portal.ucpel.tche.br/py3vhq/home/Zodiac/

 



 Take a look at this link, I don't speak spanish/portugese but it appears that the 1 1/2" pieces likely used  the (presumably) used for the spar were 6351 T6.  Is this correct?  I just kind of stumbled on this when looking at the 

  	
 

 

 

 

 

 

 



[b]

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