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1985 Firestar

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nellypup_29(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

HI to all members of Kolb list.

I have been monitoring the list for a while now, since

I have purchased a 1985 Firestar. I have not responded

to any emails on the list since I am new to Kolb and

to building planes and know very little or nothing

about them. I am repairing the Firestar I bought which

was slightly wrecked. I noticed that this(1985 model

only has 5 full aluminum ribs and the new design

models have I think seven(?). The distance between

ribs is 26.5" with 3 false ribs. I was wondering if

this allows the fabric covering to billow in between

the ribs. Would it be prudent to put another rib in

between each of the 5 ribs that are there. This would

add only a couple pounds to each wing.



Any thoughts?



Thanks Mike

Do Not Archive

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

Hi,

    The 5 rib wings are for "single place aircraft"



 The 7 rib wings are for " two seaters"

  Are you talking about adding "Ribs"  or "False Ribs"

                  Gotta Fly...

                                  Mike in MN    FSII /  N381PM

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

I know of one of those old firestars having a wing leading edge fail due to those ribs breaking which resulted in a crash     The plane I am talking about had LOTS of hours and hard use on it.  But Kolb put more ribs in the new firestars for a reason... 



If it were my plane, I would add more ribs...  A couple of pounds to have a stronger wing is a bargain.   If you do not put more ribs in that wing, you will always be wondering when you fly it    



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

JP...



Seeing how I have one of those old Firestars, please forward the accident

report for the leading edge failure, I'd like to read that one...



DVD



On 2/26/06, JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 I know of one of those old firestars having a wing leading edge fail due

 to those ribs breaking which resulted in a crash  [Shocked]   The plane I am

 talking about had LOTS of hours and hard use on it.  But Kolb put more ribs

 in the new firestars for a reason...



 If it were my plane, I would add more ribs...  A couple of pounds to have

 a stronger wing is a bargain.   If you do not put more ribs in that wing,

 you will always be wondering when you fly it   



 Michael A. Bigelow



 --------

 NO FEAR -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have

 !!!



 do not archive

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: 1985 Firestar

Besides the difference being used as 1 place versus 2 place, did the 

5 rib versus 7 rib have anything to due with ability of using a 503 

engine versus smaller HP engine.  Maybe Dennis is around he can 

comment on this.  I hadn't heard of any issues of accidents in the past.

jerb



At 10:22 PM 2/26/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I know of one of those old firestars having a wing leading edge fail 

due to those ribs breaking which resulted in a 

crash  [Shocked]   The plane I am talking about had LOTS of hours 

and hard use on it.  But Kolb put more ribs in the new firestars for 

a reason...



If it were my plane, I would add more ribs...  A couple of pounds to 

have a stronger wing is a bargain.   If you do not put more ribs in 

that wing, you will always be wondering when you fly it   



Michael A. Bigelow



--------

NO FEAR -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15245#15245

Denny Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: 1985 Firestar

---

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: 1985 Firestar

Hmmm...



There's two of us locally with 5 ribs/503 and both planes have flown lots of

hours...  One is heavy with a in-flight adjustable and the other is lighter

and has a belt drive...  Guess I better look at the wing leading edges

closer...



How many documented 5 rib/503 wings failures have there been?...



DVD

On 2/27/06, Denny Rowe <rowedl(at)highstream.net> wrote:

[quote]

 

 ---

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

nellypup_29(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: 1985 Firestar

Thanks to you all, I will let you know when I have her ready to fly and psot a few pics. I will check the archives too.

   

  Mike



Denny Rowe <rowedl(at)highstream.net> wrote:

  

---

WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: 1985 Firestar

Greetings,

 

The Reason Kolb added more ribs to the FireStar was when they  went with the 

Rotax 503 and to carry a passenger. The reason the  leading edge failed on a 

FireStar was due to over stressing the wings beyond the  designed limitations.  

You can rip the wings off a Boeing 747 if you over  stress them beyond the 

designed limitations.

 

Kolb gave me the option to build a light 5 rib FireStar or a  heavier 7 rib 

FireStar II. 

 

Regards,

Will Uribe

FireStar II N4GU

El Paso, TX

_http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/_ (http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/) 

 

 

 

--

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

Hi Mike,



        I hadn't heard of this structural failure.  Please forward details. 

There was some discussion (about a year ago IIRC) on converting to the 7-rib 

wing, but I thought it was for greater load-carrying.



Ed in JXN

MkII/503

Do not archive.



---

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

I have an original Firestar with a 503 and a 5 rib wing.  Should I be 

concerned?  Is it the extra weight or the extra horsepower or both?

---

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

How many do you need?



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



David Lehman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   <snip>

 How many documented 5 rib/503 wings failures have there been?...



 DVD

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

Well, I should feel pretty good as my 1990 Kolb Firestar has both a 503 pusher and the 7 rib wings.



Lota safety here in Ohio Ralph

nellypup_29(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

I have received a lot of great responses to my

question and certainly appreciate a lot of your

thought out answers. I am a 160# pilot and the

firestar that I bought came with a completely rebuilt

377 so that is what i will fly with for now. I guess

that puts me well under the GW of 535/550 #. So I can

leave as is and fly it or add the extra ribs which

will cost little, take a little extra work and not

hurt a darn thing. 



One unfortunate part of the 377 engine is that it is

not recommended to put an electric start on this older

serial numbered model Rotax. I don't mind pull

starting when getting ready to take of but in air

restarts could be a little hairy. Any thoughts on

this?



Keep your airspeed up and your yaw string strait.

You'll never have a problem



Thanks to all

Mike

Do not Archive

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: 1985 Firestar

Well, I'd like to know about all of them...

DVD

On 2/27/06, Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 How many do you need?

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 David Lehman wrote:

 > <snip>

 > How many documented 5 rib/503 wings failures have there been?...

 >

 > DVD

 >

 do not archive

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

I only know of only one failure.  It was a high time wing with hard use...   Would I fly a firestar with only 5 ribs in it, sure I would, kolbs are very strong and it would most likely never be a problem.   I would not rip apart a wing just to add more ribs.



If I had the wing uncovered though, and I could add some more ribs while it was open, I MOST DEFINATELY would while it was easy to do.   Being that we know where the weakest spot of the wing is, and it is and easy fix that just adds a couple more pounds, one would be foolish not to fix the weak spot.  



Bottom line is , sooner or later if you fly alot you will eventually get into severe turbulance, or have to pull out of of a dive etc.   We try to stay in the design limits of the plane, but schit happens   ...  I want my plane as strong as possible.



I have reinforced the ribs in my MK-III.   It only adds a couple pounds to the weight of the plane.   Years from now when I have flown my Kolb for many hours in all sorts of turbulance and conditions, I will not have to worry about my ribs starting to become fatigued.



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:42 am Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

Subject: Pull Start in - flight.



I had a 377 powered early Firestar with pull starter. When the engine was cold I could not start it from the pilots seat but when it was warmed up it was pretty easy, and I'm not very strong. I just had to get my lower arm behind the pull handle and push the rope handle (like doing a push up). I could not do it by pulling with my arm in front of the handle.... not enough strength that way, but pushing was not hard. This may be hard to picture but if you get into the pilots seat and try it, you may see what I'm talking about. Fortunately, I never lost the engine in-flight but regularly started a warm engine from the pilot's seat while on the ground. I imagine if the engine quits in flight and you have enough altitude, your increased adrenaline flow should allow you to rip the whole engine off its mount .



Thom in Buffalo

do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

I'd like to hear "HOW" you would add these Extra Ribs....Their evenly spaced....you gonna make it 9 ribs or move the existing ribs and leave a bunch of holes in the wing spar.......???



                  Gotta Fly...

                                  Mike in MN FSII / 503 / 7 ribs

 	  JetPilot wrote: 	
		  



If I had the wing uncovered though, and I could add some more ribs while it was open, I MOST DEFINATELY would while it was easy to do.   Being that we know where the weakest spot of the wing is, and it is and easy fix that just adds a couple more pounds, one would be foolish not to fix the weak spot.  

Michael A. Bigelow

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: Re: 1985 Firestar

Hi Mike,



I would not move the ribs that are already installed,  I would probably go with 9 ribs as you say, as it would add only a couple pounds.  Having 9 ribs also has the added benefit of giving more ribs to form the fabric properly.  Another alternative is to put angled aluminum from the leading edge to the spar front and back to streingthen the 5 ribs that are already there.



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

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