Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Trim tab play
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith601-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

countzero

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Trim tab play

After drilling the elevator Trim Tab Horn Angle (6T6-6) with an 1/8" hole as called out in the drawings and manual; I found the fit of the clevis pin was fairly loose resulting in a small amount of play in the trim tab, a couple of mm up and down. It seems like it might rattle about a little in flight. Is this OK or should the trim tabs feel solid?



Rob

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Trim tab play

Mine is similar, I've had no problem with it in nearly 225 hours of flight.



countzero wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 After drilling the elevator Trim Tab Horn Angle (6T6-6) with an 1/8" hole as called out in the drawings and manual; I found the fit of the clevis pin was fairly loose resulting in a small amount of play in the trim tab, a couple of mm up and down. It seems like it might rattle about a little in flight. Is this OK or should the trim tabs feel solid?

 

 Rob


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Rob:



My tabs have a little wiggle in them and it is not noticeable in flight.  I don't remember having much play in any of the holes, but when you put it all together and add up all the little play in each moving part (including the hinge) it all adds up to a little wiggle.  There's a good lesson or three in this that I tell everyone building - 

1. Drill a test hole in a scrap part and try it first, 

2. Cut all panels a little large and test fit first (for plans builders) and 

3.  Do a test bend on the brake on a scrap piece before making the final bend on a large part.  



One note about the trim tab since I was flying yesterday and noticed this again.  It is hard to trim out for level flight with a quick touch of the button.  It is just that sensitive and maybe it moves too fast.  If there were a way to slow it down I'd probably try it.  I use the standard RAC servo called out on the plans.  



My elevator tab is the large version that I re-made after seeing one at Sun-n Fun. 

First one:  http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_23_03_Trimtab.jpg

Secone try:  http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_8_05_Trim.jpg



It works well and I wouldn't recommend flying without the elevator trim.  I don't use the aileron trim but I haven't flown without someone in the right seat so we will see.  



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com

601XL/Corvair

finished & flying (58 hours)

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Trim tab play

Scott wrote: "One note about the trim tab since I was flying yesterday 

and noticed this again.  It is hard to trim out for level flight with a 

quick touch of the button.  It is just that sensitive and maybe it 

moves too fast.  If there were a way to slow it down I'd probably try 

it.  I use the standard RAC servo called out on the plans."



Ray Allen has a fix for this:



SPD-1 ... SERVO SPEED CONTROL

This compact unit enables you to slow the speed of your trim servo to 

suit your individual installation. Measures 2.0”(51 mm) x .5”(13 mm) x 

.8”(20 mm).



$45



http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html



http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsSPD.pdf



-- Craig

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

You could try making a voltage divider out of a couple of power resistors and feed 6 or 9 volts into the motor instead of 12. That would slow it down for sure. It'd probably still be powerful enough to move the tab.



Or you could take it apart and swap the feedscrew with a finer pitched screw. From what i saw when I opened the case on one, the feedscrew runs along a little bent tab that acts like a thread in a nut. Considering you don't want to take a chance on the trim motor falling apart and leaving you with a flapping trim tab, I'd try the voltage divider though.



Looks like the difference between the T-2 and the T-3 model though, is just a different pitch feedscrew. One's more powerful than the other but travel time is longer, proportionally to the difference in thrust.



do not archive.



 	  cookwithgas wrote: 	
		  Rob:



My tabs have a little wiggle in them and it is not noticeable in flight.  I don't remember having much play in any of the holes, but when you put it all together and add up all the little play in each moving part (including the hinge) it all adds up to a little wiggle.  There's a good lesson or three in this that I tell everyone building - 

1. Drill a test hole in a scrap part and try it first, 

2. Cut all panels a little large and test fit first (for plans builders) and 

3.  Do a test bend on the brake on a scrap piece before making the final bend on a large part.  



One note about the trim tab since I was flying yesterday and noticed this again.  It is hard to trim out for level flight with a quick touch of the button.  It is just that sensitive and maybe it moves too fast.  If there were a way to slow it down I'd probably try it.  I use the standard RAC servo called out on the plans.  



My elevator tab is the large version that I re-made after seeing one at Sun-n Fun. 

First one:  http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_23_03_Trimtab.jpg

Secone try:  http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_8_05_Trim.jpg



It works well and I wouldn't recommend flying without the elevator trim.  I don't use the aileron trim but I haven't flown without someone in the right seat so we will see.  



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com

601XL/Corvair

finished & flying (58 hours)

countzero

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

I reassembled the tab and I now see the play in the piano hinge too, although this doesn't seem to be having so much effect on the tailing edge movement of the tab. 



Looking at the servo; the other end the rod which attaches to the servo is a solid fit. I have decided to replace horn and drill it smaller this time. A 1/8" hole is called out on the drawing and manuals, what is the tolerance on that hole?



When I tested the servo with 9Vs it was reeeaaaal sloooooowww but still difficult to move the tab in small steps using the Ray Allen rocker switch, I can how it may be tricky to fine trim.



Thanks guys



Rob

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: Trim tab play

SPD-1 ... SERVO SPEED CONTROL



				

This compact unit enables you to slow the speed of your trim servo to suit

your individual installation. Measures 2.0"(51 mm) x .5"(13 mm) x .8"(20

mm).



$45



http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/accessories.html



http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsSPD.pdf

--

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Scott, just curious, do you ahve the hinged or hingeless ailerons?



 	  cookwithgas wrote: 	
		  Rob:



My tabs have a little wiggle in them and it is not noticeable in flight.  I don't remember having much play in any of the holes, but when you put it all together and add up all the little play in each moving part (including the hinge) it all adds up to a little wiggle.  There's a good lesson or three in this that I tell everyone building - 

1. Drill a test hole in a scrap part and try it first, 

2. Cut all panels a little large and test fit first (for plans builders) and 

3.  Do a test bend on the brake on a scrap piece before making the final bend on a large part.  



One note about the trim tab since I was flying yesterday and noticed this again.  It is hard to trim out for level flight with a quick touch of the button.  It is just that sensitive and maybe it moves too fast.  If there were a way to slow it down I'd probably try it.  I use the standard RAC servo called out on the plans.  



My elevator tab is the large version that I re-made after seeing one at Sun-n Fun. 

First one:  http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_23_03_Trimtab.jpg

Secone try:  http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_8_05_Trim.jpg



It works well and I wouldn't recommend flying without the elevator trim.  I don't use the aileron trim but I haven't flown without someone in the right seat so we will see.  



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com

601XL/Corvair

finished & flying (58 hours)

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Andy:



I have the stock, hingless ailerons.  Piano hinges were not even thought of when I completed my wings.  I'm not sure why they are so popular - You don't get all the gawks and head scratching at a fly-in if you you have piano hinges on your ailerons.  



I find the yoke easy to move in flight even though pitch is more sensitive.  Now if I can just figure out how to make my rudder control lighter in flight. 



I don't need much rudder input when turning but for cross-wind landing it would be nice if it weren't so hard to turn the rudder.   I'm going to take a serious look at it the next time I go out to the hangar.  



Scott Laughlin

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

How much travel do you have at the rudder pedals. Is there enough left that you could just use more of the travel in the pedals with a wider rudder horn for a little more leverage via the spare travel left in the pedals?



As far as switching to hingeless ailerons using the hinged aileron configuration, do you think that's doable by just riveting in a 100mm wide piece of .016 to act as the hinge I already have installed on my ailerons, or do you think it would just be better to make a new set of hingeless ailerons? The hinge on the hingeless aileron is just the .016 skin, correct? I'm thinking maybe just using the hinged aileron with a skin in between the skins in the aileron grabbing 3 rivets on the top of the aileron would be sufficient. How many rivets does it catch on the wing, just the rivets along the rear spar?



 	  cookwithgas wrote: 	
		  Andy:



I have the stock, hingless ailerons.  Piano hinges were not even thought of when I completed my wings.  I'm not sure why they are so popular - You don't get all the gawks and head scratching at a fly-in if you you have piano hinges on your ailerons.  



I find the yoke easy to move in flight even though pitch is more sensitive.  Now if I can just figure out how to make my rudder control lighter in flight. 



I don't need much rudder input when turning but for cross-wind landing it would be nice if it weren't so hard to turn the rudder.   I'm going to take a serious look at it the next time I go out to the hangar.  



Scott Laughlin

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Andy:



The hinge is the .016" skin on the aileron, correct.  I would just re-make the ailerons.  You are a pro at building parts now anyway right?



Scott.

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Trim tab play

Scott 

  

 It might be your front gear that is too stiff. The first plane I built had  the same problem and some adjustments and a lot of LPS took care of it.

  

  

 Jeff



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: Trim tab play

Andy I have a spare set of hinge less ailerons I would let go for 25.00  each. They were bought with my first kit and I switched to hinge less. They  are primed and ready to mount.

  

 Jeff



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Yeah, I'm just being lazy.  Maybe I'll remake them. It actually didn't take all that long.



 	  cookwithgas wrote: 	
		  Andy:



The hinge is the .016" skin on the aileron, correct.  I would just re-make the ailerons.  You are a pro at building parts now anyway right?



Scott.

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Hhhmmm, let me think about it. Are they primed on the outside? I was hoping to do a polish job on my plane. $50 total is a pretty good deal. I could spend that much on materials alone.



[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Andy I have a spare set of hinge less ailerons I would let go for 25.00  each. They were bought with my first kit and I switched to hinge less. They  are primed and ready to mount.

  

 Jeff



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes.



[quote="Afterfxllc(at)aol.com"]Scott 

  

 It might be your front gear that is too stiff. The first plane I built had  the same problem and some adjustments and a lot of LPS took care of it.

  

  

 Jeff



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

Good God Why?



do not archive.

 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

What's wrong with it?



 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Good God Why?



do not archive.

 	  ashontz wrote: 	
		  Is anyone using a Cessna style spring loaded front wheel steering instead of a hard mount on the wheel? I kind of figured that's the way I'd like to go when the time comes.

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: Trim tab play

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 07:10:46AM -0700, ashontz wrote:

(re Cessna-style spring rudder pedals-nosewheel connection)

 	  Quote: 	
		   What's wrong with it?


	


Ask, rather, what's the benefit? It's not going to keep you from cocking the

nosewheel in the wind, after all. It just seems to me like added complexity

for no benefit, something to always be avoided in aircraft.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC                   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com      http://www.tronguy.net

http://www.hercules-390.org               (Yes, that's me!)

Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Trim tab play

I think the benefit may be easier use of the rudder pedals on the ground. The wheel is coaxed to turn but won't turn fully til it starts to roll forward, but it still allows full travel of the rudder pedals til the wheel catches up.



 	  jmaynard wrote: 	
		  On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 07:10:46AM -0700, ashontz wrote:

(re Cessna-style spring rudder pedals-nosewheel connection)

 	  Quote: 	
		   What's wrong with it?



	


Ask, rather, what's the benefit? It's not going to keep you from cocking the

nosewheel in the wind, after all. It just seems to me like added complexity

for no benefit, something to always be avoided in aircraft.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC                   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com      http://www.tronguy.net

http://www.hercules-390.org               (Yes, that's me!)

Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith601-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum