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geir_olav(at)c2i.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some tip on landing this thing. When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4” above ground, I easily bounces 2 feet into the air again. Tried with reduced tire pressure but could not see that that helped any. My instructor (who have over 30 different aircraft in his log book) sad that this aircraft is the most challenging aircraft he has been landing. (not a good thing to hear when you are a rookie in a Kitfox IV).   

He was also watching me from ground today, and he wonder why this thing bounces2-3feet into the air when the landing is nearly perfect,  (stalled out 3-4” above ground, control stick full aft). I have full 6 turns on the bungees?  

I have about 11 hrs in this aircraft and aprox 65 landings, and only flying from soft field. ( I don’t dear landing this aircraft on hard runways yet).  

Have the standard big wheels (20/7-8,?) and started on about 8psi, and reduced some today.   

What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much before it is “dead”). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings.  

Have my hands full landing this thing. But on the positive side, this aircraft and engine works perfect. Cruises on 100mph and 2850rpm. And above 110mph on 3000rpm. Full throttle, and the ASI is out of numbers. (have the classic IV ASI, and I will take a  Pitot/static check to check the tolerance on the ASI).  

   

   

Geir Olav Øien  

LN-YGR  

Kitfox IV (speedster ving)  

Jabiru 2200.  

http://tinyurl.com/6d245z  

   

       [quote][b]

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

Geir, if I do not have the tail low enough when I three point my Classic 4 it bounces like you do.  I think it bounces because the mains hit first, then the tail drops which increases the angle of attack and it starts flying again.



I can make good three point full stall landings with 20 pounds in the baggage sack.  If the CG is near the foreword limit I need to sneak in a little burst of power just before touch down to slow the decent rate and keep the tail from dropping if the main wheels hit first.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

But some weight in the cargo sack and maybe a little throttle  just before landing to get the tail down.  Also I don’t use any flaps on landing and still come in between 50 and 55.  

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Geir Olav Øien

 Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:40 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.  

  

   

I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some tip on landing this thing. When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4” above ground, I easily bounces 2 feet into the air again. Tried with reduced tire pressure but could not see that that helped any. My instructor (who have over 30 different aircraft in his log book) sad that this aircraft is the most challenging aircraft he has been landing. (not a good thing to hear when you are a rookie in a Kitfox IV).   

He was also watching me from ground today, and he wonder why this thing bounces2-3feet into the air when the landing is nearly perfect,  (stalled out 3-4” above ground, control stick full aft). I have full 6 turns on the bungees?  

I have about 11 hrs in this aircraft and aprox 65 landings, and only flying from soft field. ( I don’t dear landing this aircraft on hard runways yet).  

Have the standard big wheels (20/7-8,?) and started on about 8psi, and reduced some today.   

What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much before it is “dead”). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings.  

Have my hands full landing this thing. But on the positive side, this aircraft and engine works perfect. Cruises on 100mph and 2850rpm. And above 110mph on 3000rpm. Full throttle, and the ASI is out of numbers. (have the classic IV ASI, and I will take a  Pitot/static check to check the tolerance on the ASI).  

   

   

Geir Olav Øien  

LN-YGR  

Kitfox IV (speedster ving)  

Jabiru 2200.  

http://tinyurl.com/6d245z  

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       [quote][b]

Sbennett3(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

Geir, My opinion is that my kitfox is easier to 3 point with 2  people in it. When landing solo, try using less flaps.  Mine bounces down  the runway when I use flaps.  Also, try not having stick full back as it  might make the airplane want to get airborne again.   I have 125 hrs  in my fox now and 9 out of 10 landings are wheel landings. More control in  ground effect. Good luck and just keep practicing... You'll get it right.   Steve Bennett



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

kitfoxpilot(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

I do not use the flaps, I do mostly wheel landings!  in your case, set up for your 3pt landing and let the tail wheel touch first the rest will follow

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

At 03:39 PM 5/10/2008, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4" above ground, I easily 

bounces 2 feet into the air again.


	


         If you're really 4" above ground, then the usual culprit is 

that the mains are hitting first. I nearly always get a good bounce 

out of them on a 3-pointer unless I grease, (and I mean grease,) the 

mains on, (which then makes it a low speed, high alpha, wheel landing.)



 	  Quote: 	
		  What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much 

before it is "dead"). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings.


	


         I approach at any speed, but try to enter ground effect 

going no faster than 50. Otherwise I float to tomorrow. If you're 

going to use flaps, (I rarely do,) you might reduce your landing 

speed accordingly. (Reduce it per the reduction in stall speed.) Full 

flaps on my plane reduces stall about 5mph, so I reduce my ground 

effect speed to 45, otherwise the float thing again. I rarely use 

flaps because I do wheel landings for short field. I only do three 

pointers occasionally to keep my hand in. (However, when learning I 

recommend you do 3-pointers, they're safer. Just don't expect to land 

very short.)

         Really, I wouldn't worry about the bounces. Obviously you're 

responding correctly to them because you haven't crashed, so just 

keep practicing. After about 1000 landings you'll be able to get one 

in ten that makes you happy.  (The best Kitfox landing I ever made 

was my first. It's been down-hill from there.) Sometimes I think the 

Kitfox personifies the cliche "A good landing is one in which you can 

use the airplane again!"



Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Geir Olav Øien [geir_olav(at)c2i.net]

 I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some

 tip on landing this thing.


	


Gap seal your elevator, Geir! Try first by using any kind of tape. If you like it, make something more permanent later.

I couldn't do a 3-point landing until I sealed mine. Moving the CoG aft is IMHO not a very good idea. And yes, I agree with Tom; if you bounce it is because, by hitting the main gear first, it induced a pitch-up rotation and you gain lift.

Why don't you come to Jarlsberg and we do some landings together? If you don't like asphalt, you can land on the grass shoulders of the runway. I have asked the airfield manager before and he says it's okay.

Call me at 90206822 and we find a day to do that. 



Med vennlig hilsen,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

Yes!  I also like the definition  of:

  

 "A landing" is defined as:  "Where a  30-foot aircraft contacts a sphere 8,000 miles in diameter --after which the  pilot smiles knowingly."

  

 John P. Marzluf "John Z"

Columbus,  Ohio

Series V Outback (still out back in the garage)

Do Not  Archive

  

  In a message dated 5/10/2008 10:15:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  bnn(at)nethere.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  "A good    landing is one in which you can 

use the airplane    again!"



Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C /    Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 



    

   

 

	




Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

geir_olav(at)c2i.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

Michel

I will gap seal my elevator to see if that helps. I will call you soon, and

I will come down to your place and we can do some landings at Jarlsberg

(only soft field landings for me), just need a new radio, or fix the one I

have (ICOM that will not transmit, only receive).

But I see the point where I do not have enough elevator authority and the

main wheels hit the ground before the tail (with the control stick fully

aft). CG is not a issue, because I have a 25lbs chute mounted below the

turtle deck, and my CG is in the aft range.

Thanks for your offer Michel, talk to you later.



Geir

LN-YGR

Kitfox IV (speedster wing)

Jabiru 2200.

http://tinyurl.com/6d245z



-----Opprinnelig melding-----

Fra: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] På vegne av Michel Verheughe

Sendt: 11. mai 2008 09:38

Til: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Emne: RE: finally i got my check ride, BUT.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Geir Olav Øien [geir_olav(at)c2i.net]

 I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some

 tip on landing this thing.


	


Gap seal your elevator, Geir! Try first by using any kind of tape. If you

like it, make something more permanent later.

I couldn't do a 3-point landing until I sealed mine. Moving the CoG aft is

IMHO not a very good idea. And yes, I agree with Tom; if you bounce it is

because, by hitting the main gear first, it induced a pitch-up rotation and

you gain lift.

Why don't you come to Jarlsberg and we do some landings together? If you

don't like asphalt, you can land on the grass shoulders of the runway. I

have asked the airfield manager before and he says it's okay.

Call me at 90206822 and we find a day to do that. 



Med vennlig hilsen,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri

bution</a>



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kitfoxfugit(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

"From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?= <geir_olav(at)c2i.net>

Subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.



I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need 

some tip on landing this thing. When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4=94 above ground, I easily bounces 2 feet into the air again."

I think you are a little lower than you think you are, thus your mains are hitting the ground before you are stalled, causing the tail to come down abruptly, increasing the angle of attack, and throwing your nose back up into the air.  A contributing factor may be that using flaps is reducing your ability to flare.  In mine, it is difficult to get the tail down with flaps.



I don't know about your tires or bungees, because I switched mine from bungees and square-shouldered trailer tires to Grove gear and 6:00 x 6 airplane tires, which tamed it.  I don't think your approach speed is involved in your boouncing problem.  I think mine stalls at about 45 IAS without flaps and without power.



If I hit the ground in mine and bounce, I just hold the stick full back and keep on landing.  If I drop it in, I do the same thing.  Once you learn where the ground plane is and quit using flaps so you can flare properly, you should not have that problem any more.  That takes lots of practice.  After you master that, you can try it with flaps.



JA Kitfox IV Speedster

Be a better friend, newshound, and 

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

On my four I would pull the power back and then pull in about 30% of the

flaps, I do not know what that equaled in degrees, the flaps in the four

were on a friction lever, no notches, I had a mark on the tube I could feel

and always pulled it to that point on downwind for landing, then trimmed the

elevator before turning base, I was normally high because the plane slowed

so fast once power was pulled (In case of engine out, yes I've had one) I

would normally do a forward slip to the runway to give up the extra

altitude, flare as normal, waiting for the touchdown, once I touched I would

relax the stick slightly to stay down, If I did happen to bounce I always

had my hand on the throttle and would give a little burst and flair it back

down with the throttle. If I managed to hold it off long enough to get my

tail wheel to touch first I knew I was down with no bounce. As someone else

stated it just takes practice and getting use to your plane. I had a remote

strip about 15 miles from my house that was paved with a grass cross wind

strip that I would fly to and practice without irritating the local airport

buffs.



Lloyd 



--

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

You mean it's not supposed to bounce when I land?

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

try not pulling the stick all the way back, don't put any flaps on, slow to about 50 on final.  Now, get the picture on the ground for sitting on all three and try to memorize this pic.  when you come in and are just off the runway pull nose up to get this pic or attitude.  now adjust your rpm to hold this and have a slight desent let the plane do the rest, before you know it you will be on the ground, once landed just pull the throttle.  This brings up another question, what is your idle speed, I notice you have the jab engine so what is normal idle for this thing.  does the airplane want to move on the ground with brakes off and at idle, if so you might be a little high.  On my Rotax 912 I have the idle set for about 300, the engine will almost quit at that rpm, I just raise the rpm where I want it, usually about 1800, what this does is allow me to slow the airplane down on final, really cool, than I have to adjust the idle as I land, may be too much for a new-bee, but I'm not, so that's what I like.  



Big thing is slow your decent to near nothing as you land and it will stop the bounce.  Also check your air pressure, put it to the minimums.   Now if you are close to gross weight than things change a bunch, you do the same thing but the decent will be more, so you will need to be on the throttle to keep the decent less, also the nose will want to come up more, so watch for that.



Tip, is you can't or are having troubles finding that perfect picture while flying for attitude, install a bubble like for a camper to level and put level with the airplane sitting on the ground, stick it on your door front, that way you can glance over at it to get your proper nose up when landing.



You can also go up to altitude and practice landing 3000 ft off the ground, slow to landing speed and try to get in a 3point configuration and slow it down and keep decent to a minimum, should get you ready to land on the ground this way.   I have fun doing this type of thing off the runway, I'll run a foot off at 42mph indicated right down the entire runway, real fun.  At the end I flatted out and put the throttle to it, when the airspeed is high enough I fly away.

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

I have a theory.



My Speedster's tail stalls a little before the wing so the wing never gets into a full stall condition in flight.



I think that when you are stalling at 4" above the ground, it's only your tail that is stalling.  As your tail stalls the nose of the plane goes down and you are decreasing your AOA to a flying condition again, right at the same moment that your tires touch the ground.  Your wings are creating lift again and therefore the bounce.



Some fixes:



Adjust your technique:  Don't try to fully stall for the 3-point landing.  Kind of fly it onto a 3-point landing at very low speeds.



Like some previous posts mentioned, seal your elevator hinge gap.



Get a set of vortex generators and place them on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer a few inches in front of the hinge line.  This will keep the tail from stalling before the wing.



Again, just a theory.

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

I just finished with my daily flight and I actually took notice of what happens when I land.  First off, and I think this is important, I'm going to post some stats on my airplane.



Kitfox model 4 1200 speedster.

Rotax 912 80horse

Ivo prop inflight adjust.



dry weight is 650

300left     302right

      48tail



I have vg's on the wing with 10%back, none on the horizontal

I have gap seals on the elevator, but they have  blown out on about 30% of such.



I weigh in at a whopping 180lbs.  If I have a passenger that's another 160.



I have two 16gal tanks in the wings.



I have a cruise speed of 103kts.  Gps.



Now when I land I normally do a short in approach, generally about a 1000ft out from the approach end of the runway, I will do 100mph indicated on the down wind, when In base I will be doing about 90mph, then I turn to final with a 60degree bank about 100ft off, as I'm half way in the turn I will put in full right rudder and slice it down to about 20 off the ground at which time I will be around 80mph, I keep in right rudder and level off and let up on the aileron and use only that needed to keep centerline, I will keep this until about 60 than I will straighten the aircraft 

and land it.



If I do a straight in I will establish 70mph for the final, seems to work best for me, any slower and the nose comes up to much and gets too boring,  No flaps ever, I like to have 60 over the approach end of the runway, flat prop, and power all the way back, (my rpm for full back is 300rpm, real slow)  As I run over the approach end I will be about 10ft off, I start to pull back on the stick to get a slight nose high, after this I use throttle only, as I slow so does the engine, so I increase slightly.  When I touch down I'm always at 40mph, 45 will make me bounce slightly, not noticeably by anybody watching, but I know it.



I had to go out and fly some touches to know what my speeds are because to be frank, I don't look at my indicator, I just fly in.  I may glance at the airspeed to make sure I'm close to 70 at about 3000ft out.



When I do a wheel landing I do the same speeds except the touch down is at 55mph indicated, makes a real nice landing.  Than I will pull power off and slowly pull back on the stick to lower the rear wheel.   



Remember your ailerons will start working at 25mph.  with no flaps those buggers work real good also



Now just a little brag here, I put on new tires last year, I have over 6000 landings on them.  I never squeak the tires, and very seldom bounce.  I put in 310hrs. 408 flights for 2007.  I do an average of 30 t &G a flight.  I can do a touch and go every minute.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: crazyivan [dmivezic(at)yahoo.com]

 My Speedster's tail stalls a little before the wing so the wing never gets into a full

 stall condition in flight.


	


Hum, I never thought of that! It is true that when I try to gently stall at altitude, I just can't; the stick is all the way against me and I can't increase the nose-up attitude; I mush down.



Geir, if you're still reading this: I remember that when I landed with my instructor, he told me so many times not to freeze when landing: keep the stick moving! If you bounce, push the stick forward, then pull again and try to make a nice second touch-down. Already at final approach, keep the stick and the pedals moving; feel how the plane reacts just over stall speed, feel the sluggishness. And when you flare, do it by several small jolts on the stick: feel the plane ... and feel the Force, young Luke Skywalker! 

Seriously, it helps me to eyeball the landing.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

geir_olav(at)c2i.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

Thanks to all for the postings for my bouncing problem, will take all this

information and practice the first opportunity. Will gap seal my elevators,

and not use the flap when practicing landings (have to fly about 30 min to

another airstrip to practice landings) but this airstrip is long and nice

(soft field). Will come back with more info how everything is going. But I

clearly see the problem with using the flap and elevator authority, and all

I need is practice. Some friends of me did not believe a  Kitfox 4 would

cruise on or above 100mph, but what you wrote below here state my numbers.



Thanks again



Geir Olav

LN-YGR

Kitfox IV (speedster ving)

Jabiru 2200.

http://tinyurl.com/6d245z



-----Opprinnelig melding-----

Fra: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] På vegne av kitfoxmike

Sendt: 14. mai 2008 19:49

Til: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Emne: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.






I just finished with my daily flight and I actually took notice of what

happens when I land.  First off, and I think this is important, I'm going to

post some stats on my airplane.



Kitfox model 4 1200 speedster.

Rotax 912 80horse

Ivo prop inflight adjust.



dry weight is 650

300left     302right

      48tail



I have vg's on the wing with 10%back, none on the horizontal

I have gap seals on the elevator, but they have  blown out on about 30% of

such.



I weigh in at a whopping 180lbs.  If I have a passenger that's another 160.



I have two 16gal tanks in the wings.



I have a cruise speed of 103kts.  Gps.



Now when I land I normally do a short in approach, generally about a 1000ft

out from the approach end of the runway, I will do 100mph indicated on the

down wind, when In base I will be doing about 90mph, then I turn to final

with a 60degree bank about 100ft off, as I'm half way in the turn I will put

in full right rudder and slice it down to about 20 off the ground at which

time I will be around 80mph, I keep in right rudder and level off and let up

on the aileron and use only that needed to keep centerline, I will keep this

until about 60 than I will straighten the aircraft 

and land it.



If I do a straight in I will establish 70mph for the final, seems to work

best for me, any slower and the nose comes up to much and gets too boring,

No flaps ever, I like to have 60 over the approach end of the runway, flat

prop, and power all the way back, (my rpm for full back is 300rpm, real

slow)  As I run over the approach end I will be about 10ft off, I start to

pull back on the stick to get a slight nose high, after this I use throttle

only, as I slow so does the engine, so I increase slightly.  When I touch

down I'm always at 40mph, 45 will make me bounce slightly, not noticeably by

anybody watching, but I know it.



I had to go out and fly some touches to know what my speeds are because to

be frank, I don't look at my indicator, I just fly in.  I may glance at the

airspeed to make sure I'm close to 70 at about 3000ft out.



When I do a wheel landing I do the same speeds except the touch down is at

55mph indicated, makes a real nice landing.  Than I will pull power off and

slowly pull back on the stick to lower the rear wheel.   



Remember your ailerons will start working at 25mph.  with no flaps those

buggers work real good also



Now just a little brag here, I put on new tires last year, I have over 6000

landings on them.  I never squeak the tires, and very seldom bounce.  I put

in 310hrs. 408 flights for 2007.  I do an average of 30 t &G a flight.  I

can do a touch and go every minute.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183159#183159

malpass

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

My 2 cents worth on landings, and I have 3 instructors that have tried to teach me. 2 gave up and 1 finally  saw me thru the lessons. I think all will agree with this message:

 

I have a model III with a 582.  All 3 high hour instructors said this was the toughest plane to take off and land that they had seen.

 

I had to put in 32 hours on grass before I felt I could advance to hard surface.  It took 36 hours of nothing but take offs and landings to where I could successfully and repetitively take of and land.

 

There where several things I learned to successfully master this beast.  My humble recommendations are:

 

1.  Deflate tires to exactly 9 psi (not 10)



2.  Always 3 point land the fox at least initially on learning... (the P.O.H. even recommends this over wheel landings)



3. When learning the landing technique,  don't try full crosswind landings where wind is more than about 8 mph. If it is more than that, don't fly.

 

4. If your flying with a 2 stroke 582 single (no passengers) keep throttle up to about 3600 rpm. 2 persons, about 3800

 

5. Use no flaps

 

6. Get down to surface about 12" to 24" and slowly round-out and make a slow flair determined not to let the wheels touch down.

 

7. Let the plane drop slowly on it's on, with full stick back with the stick touching your gonads.

 

8. Do not let go, or ease the stick.

 

9. Make sure you have memorized the field of reference out the wind screen, such that the plane is flying perfectly straight ahead !!  There is  definitely a  technique for this as the off centered view in a fox is deceiving.

 

I found that I can make a successful 3 pointer every time and not bounce on hard surface.

 

I think the reason is the speed is only about 27-28 mph.  The plane has full stalled and cannot fly again, even if there is slight bounce. Slight power allows a slow mush with a nose up attitude. (where you need to be).

 

You must hold tight back pressure and do not ease the stick even though there is a distinctive desire to do it.

 

All these points are very important.  I've tried them all.

 

When this bird has full stalled, and is straight ahead, landings will be perfect.

 

This will take extreme concentration such that if someone were able to drive a hot poker coal up your butt, you wouldn't even feel it!

 

Try it several times and see what you think.

 

Some may disagree, but do not try main wheel landings when you are initially learning.

 

I now have 90 hour on my fox, and my rear end doesnt even pucker up upon landing anymore.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

At 02:47 PM 5/14/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  9. Make sure you have memorized the field of reference out the wind screen, such that the plane is flying perfectly straight ahead !!  There is  definitely a  technique for this as the off centered view in a fox is deceiving. 	


         I still have my "beginners" stripes on my windshield. 1/8" blue tape. The horizontal one is the horizon in a 3-point attitude. The vertical one is a "gunsight" that doubles when I focus at infinity, giving me a bracket for the centerline. Embarrassing, but I've gotten over it.



 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20080514232233.018b2008(at)nethere.com.0[/img] 



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: finally i got my check ride, BUT.

Best advice I can give to avoid bouncing is swap the wheels for a good set

of floats. 



I never have a problem with bouncing... round out about a foot above  the

water and the next thing you know you're down.



Noel 



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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