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Information on EA-81

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: Information on EA-81

My wife and I are searching for a plane and we keep coming across planes with EA-81s and I can't find much about them. I like the 4 stroke reliability and the price is WORLDS better then a Rotax 912. How does it compare as far as reliability, overhaul cost, life expectancy? Any information or first hand experience would be greatly appreciated.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Information on EA-81

 	  Quote: 	
		  I like the 4 stroke reliability and the price is WORLDS better then a Rotax 912 	




Rotax 912 very dependable and better power to weight  than a EA-81. 

You can buy a Kitfox IV with 912 for under 25k  usually used. Good bargain  in my opinion.  If you want a 2 stroke  same plane with a 582 will be 15 to 20k .  My 582 has over 450 hours now since this last engine in June 06 and never been apart yet.  So that give credit to the reliability of the 582 once again.

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: oops

oops, double post

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Last edited by WurlyBird on Mon May 19, 2008 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Information on EA-81

So that brings up another question I have about two strokes.  My initial reason for wanting a four stroke is, like many people who have been around aviation for a while, it is ingrained in me that four strokes are more reliable then two strokes.  I don't have to many issues with landing in a field due to an engine failure, that is just natural after flying gliders for years, but I didn't want that to be a concern of mine when my wife and son are out tooling around without me.  I realize the two strokes have made huge leaps in performance and reliability but it is still hard to find any real statistics.  So how has your experience been with the 582?  How strictly do you follow the 150/300 hr rebuild schedule and have you had any flame outs?  I also read a really good article, it is a bit old now but it breaks down the cost of operating a 582 vs a 912.  Based on purchase price, fuel, routine maintenance, and oil it actually showed that it is cheaper to go with a 912 after less then 1200 hours.  I will link the article but I am curious what your response would be since you have obviously flown a good amount on a 582.  Thanks for the info.



http://www.ultralightnews.ca/articles/912vs582.html

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: Information on EA-81

At 11:03 AM 5/19/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I realize the two strokes have made huge leaps in performance and 

reliability but it is still hard to find any real statistics.  So 

how has your experience been with the 582?  How strictly do you 

follow the 150/300 hr rebuild schedule and have you had any flame 

outs?  I also read a really good article, it is a bit old now but it 

breaks down the cost of operating a 582 vs a 912.  Based on purchase 

price, fuel, routine maintenance, and oil it actually showed that it 

is cheaper to go with a 912 after less!

   then 1200 hours.  I will link the article but I am curious what 

 your response would be since you have obviously flown a good amount 

 on a 582.  Thanks for the info.


	


I have been flying my 582 powered Fox for almost two years now. Here 

are my opinions:



1. The 582 is very reliable if cared for both while in flight and on 

the ground. (Two strokes are, in general, equally reliable if cared 

for, in my experience.) There is currently no more excuse for 

"flame-outs" with a 582 than with any other aircraft engine.



2. The 582 requires more care in flight due to the necessity of 

maintaining high, but not too high EGT's. Modern electronics make 

this quite easy. (I use a GRT engine monitor with a BIG RED LIGHT.) 

All else remains quite similar to four strokes operationally.



3. The 582 requires more maintenance on the ground due to the 300 

hour rebuild schedule. Most are recommending against the 50 hour 

de-carbons now and some even recommend running the engine without 

inspection the full 300 hours. (I pulled my top end apart at 150 hours.)



4. You are correct in stating that a 912 is cheaper in the long run. 

I've just run the numbers for modern costs and it's still true.



5. Having to carry and/or find oil for your two stroke is a PITA. For 

my long trips I carry oil. This reduces payload and increases anxiety.



6. The 582 has the highest power to weight of any aircraft engine out 

there. A close second is the 912S. However, as in all things, theres 

no substitute for horsepower so the 912 will beat the pants off a 582 

every time.



         I love my 582. It's been a great engine- reliable, easy to 

start, easy to maintain, and lots of grunt. That said, I'll be 

switching to a 912S primarily because of #4 and 5 above.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Information on EA-81

Add to that, faster and a lot more range, and a lot cheaper to operate. 

  Clint 

  912ULS 1320 hours, also had 912UL before.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:48:37 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 From: bnn(at)nethere.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Information on EA-81

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

 At 11:03 AM 5/19/2008, you wrote:

 >I realize the two strokes have made huge leaps in performance and 

 >reliability but it is still hard to find any real statistics. So 

 >how has your experience been with the 582? How strictly do you 

 >follow the 150/300 hr rebuild schedule and have you had any flame 

 >outs? I also read a really good article, it is a bit old now but it 

 >breaks down the cost of operating a 582 vs a 912. Based on purchase 

 >price, fuel, routine maintenance, and oil it actually showed that it 

 >is cheaper to go with a 912 after less!

 > then 1200 hours. I will link the article but I am curious what 

 > your response would be since you have obviously flown a good amount 

 > on a 582. Thanks for the info.

 I have been flying my 582 powered Fox for almost two years now. Here 

 are my opinions:

 1. The 582 is very reliable if cared for both while in flight and on 

 the ground. (Two strokes are, in general, equally reliable if cared 

 for, in my experience.) There is currently no more excuse for 

 "flame-outs" with a 582 than with any other aircraft engine.

 2. The 582 requires more care in flight due to the necessity of 

 maintaining high, but not too high EGT's. Modern electronics make 

 this quite easy. (I use a GRT engine monitor with a BIG RED LIGHT.) 

 All else remains quite similar to four strokes operationally.

 3. The 582 requires more maintenance on the ground due to the 300 

 hour rebuild schedule. Most are recommending against the 50 hour 

 de-carbons now and some even recommend running the engine without 

 inspection the full 300 hours. (I pulled my top end apart at 150 hours.)

 4. You are correct in stating that a 912 is cheaper in the long run. 

 I've just run the numbers for modern costs and it's still true.

 5. Having to carry and/or find oil for your two stroke is a PITA. For 

 my long trips I carry oil. This reduces payload and increases anxiety.

 6. The 582 has the highest power to weight of any aircraft engine out 

 there. A close second is the 912S. However, as in all things, theres 

 no substitute for horsepower so the 912 will beat the pants off a 582 

 every time.

 I love my 582. It's been a great engine- reliable, easy to 

 start, easy to maintain, and lots of grunt. That said, I'll be 

 switching to a 912S primarily because of #4 and 5 above.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Duca=======================

&g==

 	  Quote: 	

  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Information on EA-81

I'm not a Jabiru dealer, nor do I play one on TV or here on this  

group. But I AM a satisfied owner/operator of a Kitfox IV with Jabiru  

2200 power with 510 hours of operation,  flying from mid-America to  

each coast. I offer this info just to offset all the talk of the  

"other" brand. Just because they are the most-used engine doesn't  

mean they are the only engine. Keep the 4 cylinder, 4 stroke Jab in  

mind while you're shopping.



Lynn (NOT a Jabiru dealer)



On May 19, 2008, at 2:09 AM, WurlyBird wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



 My wife and I are searching for a plane and we keep coming across  

 planes with EA-81s and I can't find much about them. I like the 4  

 stroke reliability and the price is WORLDS better then a Rotax 912.  

 How does it compare as far as reliability, overhaul cost, life  

 expectancy? Any information or first hand experience would be  

 greatly appreciated.



 --------

 Prospective Kitfox buyer

 Here for information on airframes and engines





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183767#183767

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Information on EA-81

Jabiru is another name that seems to come up a lot.  i am very unfamiliar with them though.  What kind of engine sizes/hp do they come in and what are their purchase prices like?  If you know of a dealer site that has good info a link would more then suffice.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Information on EA-81

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: WurlyBird [james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil]

 Jabiru is another name that seems to come up a lot.  i am very unfamiliar 

 with them though.


	


Like Lynn and a few others, I am a happy Kitfox/Jabiru owner.

Five years ago I bought a Kitfox 3 with a Rotax 582. I had no previous knowledge of aviation or engines. The 582 was a fine engine but when I had 270 hours on it, I decided to change it for a four-strokes engines because I wanted to do some long distance flying in Europe and I was told that real pilots flew behind 4-strokes engines.

The 912 was the first choice. But it is heavy for my very light model 3. The Jabiru 2200 was a good alternative since it was about the same weight as the 582. It was also cheaper. But what made me decide for it is this: I don't know about engine and therefore it made sense that I did what generations of pilots have done for decades: Choose a direct drive air-cooled engine.

The Jabiru is very simple and easy to install. The only problem I had was that the boxer engine needed more place under the cowling. Now I had seen several modifications and even the Skyfox cowling. But I went for making my own cowling and I don't regret it. The plane doens't have anymore the sweet rotaty look but it works very well. Like all air-cooled engine, the key to success is to make a good vacuum chamber so that the engine is kept cool at any time. 

The Jabiru has been through several changes during the years, each time trying to improve a bit the engine. The 2200 is nominal 80 HP but it went from an actual 75 to 85 HP by improving details, even if in the process the compression has been reduced.

The latest improvement has been hydraulic lifters. It created a problem in the oil pressure in the rocker chamber but it is now fixed. Those with the the first models had to drill holes in the engine.

The only real drawback with the engine is that you should have a fixed pitch wood propeller. That's a price you have to pay to avoid harmonic vibrations on the direct drive. Some composite propellers are reported to work well too. But I have the original Jabiru wood propeller since I don't have the nerves to be a test pilot. 

The TBO of the Jabiru is 2000 hours with a rebuild of the heads at 1000 hours. I have 260 hours on mine and maintenance is only an oil and oil filter change every 50 hours.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Information on EA-81

They come in 4 cylinder.....85 hp, and 6 cylinder....120  

hp.....www.usjabiru.com  or www.jabirupacific.com  or just google  

"jabiru"



They also have an 8 cylinder, but I understand they are not producing  

them at this time, in order to put all efforts into producing the 4's  

and 6's.



Lynn

On May 19, 2008, at 3:22 PM, WurlyBird wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



 Jabiru is another name that seems to come up a lot.  i am very  

 unfamiliar with them though.  What kind of engine sizes/hp do they  

 come in and what are their purchase prices like?  If you know of a  

 dealer site that has good info a link would more then suffice.



 --------

 Prospective Kitfox buyer

 Here for information on airframes and engines





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183865#183865

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: Information on EA-81

I have a classic 4 with a stratus converted ea-81.  it is a little heavy

but with 100 hp she is still a stellar performer our performing just about

everything in her class.  The sub has 160 hours on it with no problems.  The

basics of the engine are factory Subaru so parts are easy to get from any

auto parts store.  TBO is 2000 hours and I would assume the parts are cheap

since they are stock auto parts.  As far as reliability ,I was unable to

find any body that has had any problems with one.



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