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memory versus tape

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

Hi Guys,



I’m wondering if anyone has plugged in a small voice recorder for ATC 

communications. The latest requirements have ATC providing total taxi 

instructions. That guidance has the tower rapidly describing a 7-point 

guidance that used to be 2 or 3-points. It’s always been required to do 

a read-back to ATC in its entirety. Every ATC controller has his own 

creatively unique delivery that also complicates the pickup and 

read-back. Has anyone found a better way of dealing with this excessive 

mental-bandwidth aside from just more practice or a tape recorder?



We need a better idea here,,,,,,,,,,,,



Thanks,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

Hi Larry,



If you have trouble copying the long clearance, then keep asking the 

controller to repeat it until you get it.



Perhaps they need to speak a little more clearly.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 04:44 PM 5/24/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Guys,



I'm wondering if anyone has plugged in a small voice recorder for 

ATC communications. The latest requirements have ATC providing total 

taxi instructions. That guidance has the tower rapidly describing a 

7-point guidance that used to be 2 or 3-points. It's always been 

required to do a read-back to ATC in its entirety. Every ATC 

controller has his own creatively unique delivery that also 

complicates the pickup and read-back. Has anyone found a better way 

of dealing with this excessive mental-bandwidth aside from just more 

practice or a tape recorder?



We need a better idea here,,,,,,,,,,,,



Thanks,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: memory versus tape

Larry,



What you might try is using your best foreign voice, and ask them to go slower.  Understand, they are here for us not the other way around.  



I heard a guy give a talk about this once.  They did an IFR cross country and never opened a map.  They had the maps but he just kept asking for guidance and direction for Comm Freq etc. during the hand offs for the whole trip.  His whole point of his talk was they (ATC) are here for us and if one of them gives you a hard time, get their name and number.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

Larry,

 A friend of mine (from Alabama) states that he  had no problem when working with fast talking "Yankee" controllers when he  would say, in a sloooow southern drawl:

 "Could ya'll speak a little slower - I'm just a po  farm boy from Alabama"

 He also stated that other pilots on the frequency  would frequently tell center they were also from  Alabama.

 Tony Graziano

 XL/Jab

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 -------------------

             Subject:              memory versus    tape        From:              LarryMcFarland (larry(at)macsmachine.com ([email]larry(at)macsmachine.com?subject=Re:%20memory%20versus%20tape&replyto=4838A84D.90201(at)macsmachine.com[/email]))        Date:              [b]Sat May 24 - 4:47        PM[/b]

  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Guys,



Im wondering if anyone has plugged in a small voice recorder for ATC 

communications. The latest requirements have ATC providing total taxi 

instructions. That guidance has the tower rapidly describing a 7-point 

guidance that used to be 2 or 3-points. Its always been required to do 

a read-back to ATC in its entirety. Every ATC controller has his own 

creatively unique delivery that also complicates the pickup and 

read-back. Has anyone found a better way of dealing with this excessive 

mental-bandwidth aside from just more practice or a tape recorder?



We need a better idea here,,,,,,,,,,,,



Thanks,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

	
	
   [quote][b]

grant.corriveau(at)TELUS.
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: memory versus tape

The only way I've found for dealing with this is to memorize the  

standard routes that would be offered at my regular airports.  With  

each airport there are only a few specific taxi routes that can be  

used.  I'm a visual learner, so I memorized them using the ground  

movement chart and keep this in front of me while receiving the  

clearance so I can follow the route with my eyes as it's being called  

out to me on the radio.  After my readback, I also then jot it down  

on paper, but I don't try to write it down while it was being read to  

me - that apparently requires more channels than my old "8-track"  

brain can deal with.



Of course this only works for airports that I'm familiar with.   

Simple airports are easy to review just before calling ATC, and at  

more complex, unfamiliar airports, the "po Alabama farmer' gig works  

best - substitute States and Occupations as required for desired  

effect 



regards

Grant

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: memory versus tape

Include the word 'Unfamiliar' in your contact and they will slow it down and

be more helpful.

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: memory versus tape

If all else fails, you can ask for a progressive taxi and get turn by  

turn directions.



On May 25, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Gary Ray wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Include the word 'Unfamiliar' in your contact and they will slow it  

 down and

 be more helpful.


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: memory versus tape

Recording is OK for later review and practice but you want to make sure you understand the clearance before you move the airplane.  Just say something like "That was a little too fast for me... please repeat again, slower."



They'll get the point....  the other thing is, the more you talk to ATC the quicker you'll pick it up.  In all actuality, most clearances, instructions and the like are given in a set format.  If you know what is coming next it is a little easier to catch it the first time around.



Also, as one poster said, ATC is there to serve you, not the other way around.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

haven

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Kansas City MO

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: memory versus tape

Sometimes it also helps to have a printout of the airport diagram.  You can get them on the aopa web site, and I am sure many others.



J

Do not archive

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

PS Engineering's PM3000 intercom offers this optional feature:



"An optional digital recorder can provide up to one minute of storage of

radio receptions. A continuous loop recorder, it does not record "dead air

time", giving the pilots an option to store up to 16 messages at any one

time."



http://www.ps-engineering.com/pm3000.shtml



-- Craig



--

Andrewlieser

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 43
Location: Chicagoland

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: memory versus tape

Best bet is to just ask for a progressive taxi if you could not keep up.  Being a controller (enroute not tower) its very Pavlovian for us to want to get as much info out as quick as possible when we are also readying other clearances or are busy.  This usually only amplifies confusion and creates unnoticed read back errors but it is just a trained reflex.  Worst case scenario and the controller is nasty, just continue to ask for clarification (DO NOT proceed if uncertain) because a nasty controller is also the one who is very likely to start his next transmission "N1234 possible pilot deviation contact....." and you definitely don't want to hear those words.  It's a sad state that controllers can harbor that animosity toward pilots, it seems we expect them all to be perfect, but remember when it ultimately comes down to it we all just want to fly safely.



Hoping we can peacefully co exist (Pilots, Controllers)

_________________
Andrew Lieser
S/N 6-7045
http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser

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