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memory versus tape

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

Hi Guys,



I’m wondering if anyone has plugged in a small voice recorder for ATC 

communications. The latest requirements have ATC providing total taxi 

instructions. That guidance has the tower rapidly describing a 7-point 

guidance that used to be 2 or 3-points. It’s always been required to do 

a read-back to ATC in its entirety. Every ATC controller has his own 

creatively unique delivery that also complicates the pickup and 

read-back. Has anyone found a better way of dealing with this excessive 

mental-bandwidth aside from just more practice or a tape recorder?



We need a better idea here,,,,,,,,,,,,



Thanks,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

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earl_schroeder(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

Hi Larry,

I had a 'solid state' device sold by someone at Oshkosh years ago wired in but I could not figure how I was going to read back the recording short of just playing it to ATC.  Somehow, I didn't think they would be happy with that solution..



As time passed, I figured out that they always deliver clearances in the exact order so I printed some address labels with blanks to insert the items that change.. worked for me.



Now if ATC has no standard phraseology for taxi clearances, I would constantly ask for progressive instructions.  I'll bet if a lot would, standardization would soon follow.   



Maybe this isn't a 'better idea' but my best shot.   Earl 

-- LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> wrote:



Hi Guys,



I’m wondering if anyone has plugged in a small voice recorder for ATC 

communications. The latest requirements have ATC providing total taxi 

instructions. That guidance has the tower rapidly describing a 7-point 

guidance that used to be 2 or 3-points. It’s always been required to do 

a read-back to ATC in its entirety. Every ATC controller has his own 

creatively unique delivery that also complicates the pickup and 

read-back. Has anyone found a better way of dealing with this excessive 

mental-bandwidth aside from just more practice or a tape recorder?



We need a better idea here,,,,,,,,,,,,



Thanks,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

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sgfreeman(at)smyth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: memory versus tape

Look at the PS-Engineering PMA-4000 audio panel with voice record.  It has a 

lot of functionality price and takes up little panel space.

---

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bobf(at)feldtman.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: memory versus tape

short term memory, repitition and read back comes with practice, but at a towered airport with expected complex taxi instructions, have a pencil in your hand and paper on the knee before you call - and use some sort of "shorthand" to abbreviate as it comes across. More important than reading it back is following exactly what they tell you to do. I also almost always call the ground control before crossing any runway "Is 125GS cleared to cross 34?" Sometimes they get upset and say "your taxi clearance assumes that" but I don't care. I'd rather use 15 secs of radio than get twanged. Having the shorthand written instructions in front of you helps - you can also have on the other knee the airport diagram -

 No electronic gizmo is going to accomplish all that. But it is cool to show off to people.

bobf



On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 6:44 PM, LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)>

  

 Hi Guys,

 

 I'm wondering if anyone has plugged in a small voice recorder for ATC communications. The latest requirements have ATC providing total taxi instructions. That guidance has the tower rapidly describing a 7-point guidance that used to be 2 or 3-points. It's always been required to do a read-back to ATC in its entirety. Every ATC controller has his own creatively unique delivery that also complicates the pickup and read-back. Has anyone found a better way of dealing with this excessive mental-bandwidth aside from just more practice or a tape recorder?

  

 We need a better idea here,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 Thanks,

 

 Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 [b]

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Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: Re: memory versus tape

Don't try to look cool and pretend you know what you're doing if you are uncertain of the instructions, just say "Request Progressive Taxi Instructions." Progressive being the key word. Remember in all cases YOU are the customer who is to be served, not the ground controller. Remember "Confess, Communicate, Comply." always trumps, "Hold my beer...Watch this!"

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_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: memory versus tape

Good Morning Eric,

  

 The statement "Remember in all cases YOU are the customer who is to be  served, not the ground controller"

 was the mantra used by the last two female leaders of the FAA. 

  

 An order has recently been issued at the direction of Congressman Oberstar,  that the FAA's business is not to be conducted in that manner. Instead, they are  to consider that their mission is to issue violations.

  

 While the air traffic controllers are not, and most do not want to be,  issuers of violations, they are in the same boat as we pilots when it comes to  anything which jeopardize their employment.

  

 The new attitude stinks and it comes not only from congress, but from the  current white house.

  

 Be careful out there. 

  

 In addition to our needing to avoid physical danger, we need to be aware  that the FAA is definitely not there to help.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 5/26/2008 8:29:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  emjones(at)charter.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Don't    try to look cool and pretend you know what you're doing if you are uncertain    of the instructions, just say "Request Progressive Taxi Instructions."    Progressive being the key word. Remember in all cases YOU are the customer who    is to be served, not the ground controller. Remember "Confess, Communicate,    Comply." always trumps, "Hold my beer...Watch  this!"

	






Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

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henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: memory versus tape

Eric,



It is so nice that the FAA is so customer oriented.  This is why the following saying exists: "Hi, we're from the FAA, and we're here to help."  If you haven't heard it, it's just a matter of time.



 Henador Titzof

---

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: memory versus tape

Good Morning  Henador,

  

 You may think you are being facetious, but there has been a major change in  direction at the FAA.

  

 They are now directed by their superiors to be the enemy.  

  

 Most FAA personal are just as a enamored of aviation as we are, but their  jobs depend on doing what they are told. When the head of the aviation  subcommittee tells them to be bad guys, what do you think they are going to  do?

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 5/26/2008 10:43:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Eric,



It is so nice that the FAA is so customer oriented.     This is why the following saying exists: "Hi, we're from the FAA, and we're    here to help."  If you haven't heard it, it's just a matter of    time.



Henador  Titzof

	






Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

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