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mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Elevators

Please help.  I’ve attached the elevators to the horiz stab and adjusted to have a roughly even gap at the trailing edge of the stab.  Height wise though there is a 3/16” difference between the left and right elevator horns.  Anyone else have this issue?  Is there a fix or is this a common misalignment?  Just drill away and live with the difference?  

   

Thanks in advance.  

   

Do not archive  

   

Mike Doble  

Builder 40691  

Working on my tail.....  

Waukesha, Wisconsin  

       [quote][b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Elevators

In my experience it is not at all uncommon to have the horns not exactly lined up.  I think it's just an issue of the welds and lack of accuracy there.  I have seen some that line up almost perfectly and some that are off by as much as 10 degrees, probably.  Is this what you are referring to?



do not archive



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 [quote][b]

dogsbark(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Elevators

Mike,

  

 I believe in Section 11-3, it specifically refers to the horns not being aligned and  has you go through a procedure to drill them "as is" while in the trail position.

  

 Sean Blair

 #40225 

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Mike Doble (Home Office)" <mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com> 

       

Please help.  I’ve attached the elevators to the horiz stab and adjusted to have a roughly even gap at the trailing edge of the stab.  Height wise though there is a 3/16” difference between the left and right elevator horns.  Anyone else have this issue?  Is there a fix or is this a common misalignment?  Just drill away and live with the difference?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

  

Thanks in advance. 

  

Do not archive 

  

Mike Doble 

Builder 40691 

Working on my tail..... 

Waukesha, Wisconsin

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: Elevators

Hey Jesse, how many RV-10’s are you up to now?  Must be at least 5 or 6.  Just curious.  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

 Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:19 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Elevators  

  

  

   

In my experience it is not at all uncommon to have the horns not exactly lined up.  I think it's just an issue of the welds and lack of accuracy there.  I have seen some that line up almost perfectly and some that are off by as much as 10 degrees, probably.  Is this what you are referring to?    

         

Jesse Saint  

    

Saint Aviation, Inc.  

    

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)  

    

Cell: 352-427-0285  

    

Fax: 815-377-3694  

  

  

  

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mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: Elevators

When in trail position the horns are both vertical and lined up fairly well.  I’m talking about the horizontal alignment.  If you look from the back with the elevators in trail, the bottom of the horns are uneven by 3/16”.  I guess it really should not matter too much as long as they’re drilled accurately.  I’m really anal about things like this….ugh!  Unless someone thinks otherwise, I’ll move on and live with it.  

     

Do not archive  

   

Mike Doble  

Builder 40691  

Working on my tail.....  

  

Waukesha, Wisconsin      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint

 Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:19 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Elevators  

  

  

   

In my experience it is not at all uncommon to have the horns not exactly lined up.  I think it's just an issue of the welds and lack of accuracy there.  I have seen some that line up almost perfectly and some that are off by as much as 10 degrees, probably.  Is this what you are referring to?    

   

    

do not archive  

    

         

Jesse Saint  

    

Saint Aviation, Inc.  

    

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)  

    

Cell: 352-427-0285  

    

Fax: 815-377-3694  

  

  

  

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       [quote][b]

Lew Gallagher

Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Elevators

Hey Mike,



Ours were off by at LEAST that much.  And after obsessing over it way too much, another builder told us, "you know, it's an airplane, not a Swiss watch" ... and we moved on.



Later, - Lew

_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: Elevators

If you are referring to the elevator counter weight arms being out of alignment when the elevator trailing edges are lined up, yes, I had the same issue.  I concluded you just have live with it.  I'd suggest not deciding to line up the counterweights instead of the trailing edges (obviously) or even trying to split the difference (appealing but probably bad).

 

 My thinking is that the the counterweight arms end up  not being built exactly the same, perhaps one of the few spots where the CNC- match hole fabrication fails.  Between the fluting and other machinations required to get the assembly together in the first place, I'm thinking that I may have pushed and pulled it together unevenly and cemented in some misalignment when match drilling and power squeezing.   I'm pretty sure that given that experience, I could get both of them together more 'evenly'  next time.

 

 I'll be checking arm alignments out at Osh this year...

 

 Oh, mine is about 3/16" too.  I've moved on.

 

 Bill "those doors may not be so bad" Watson

 Durham

 40605

 

 Mike Doble (Home Office) wrote: [quote]                 <![endif]-->       <![endif]-->      

Please help.  I’ve attached the elevators to the horiz stab and adjusted to have a roughly even gap at the trailing edge of the stab.  Height wise though there is a 3/16” difference between the left and right elevator horns.  Anyone else have this issue?  Is there a fix or is this a common misalignment?  Just drill away and live with the difference?   

    

Thanks in advance.   

    

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 [b]

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: Elevators

Well, I can see I answered the wrong question in another post.  Yes my horns were uneven too in seemingly all  directions.  So much so, I found it difficult to maintain the prop edge clearance on one or the other.

 

 I obsessed so much about it that with the help of my Tech Counseler, we re-engineered it a bit so it looked like his Pitts.

 

 Bill "finding a  boxed up YIO-540 makes a fine door sanding bench" Watson

  

 Mike Doble (Home Office) wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		                   <![endif]-->       <![endif]-->      

When in trail position the horns are both vertical and lined up fairly well.  I’m talking about the horizontal alignment.  If you look from the back with the elevators in trail, the bottom of the horns are uneven by 3/16”.  I guess it really should not matter too much as long as they’re drilled accurately.  I’m really anal about things like this….ugh!  Unless someone thinks otherwise, I’ll move on and live with it.   

    

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 	
 Do not archive

    [quote][b]

mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: Elevators

Lew/Bill – Thanks for the reassurance.  I’m drilling it and moving on.  

     

Do not archive  

   

Mike “Keep Reminding Myself It’s NOT a Swiss Watch” Doble (Thanks Lew – I like that!)  

Builder 40691  

Working on my tail.....Still  

  

Waukesha, Wisconsin      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MauleDriver

 Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 10:49 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Elevators  

  

  

   

Well, I can see I answered the wrong question in another post.  Yes my horns were uneven too in seemingly all  directions.  So much so, I found it difficult to maintain the prop edge clearance on one or the other.

 

 I obsessed so much about it that with the help of my Tech Counseler, we re-engineered it a bit so it looked like his Pitts.

 

 Bill "finding a  boxed up YIO-540 makes a fine door sanding bench" Watson

  

 Mike Doble (Home Office) wrote:   

When in trail position the horns are both vertical and lined up fairly well.  I’m talking about the horizontal alignment.  If you look from the back with the elevators in trail, the bottom of the horns are uneven by 3/16”.  I guess it really should not matter too much as long as they’re drilled accurately.  I’m really anal about things like this….ugh!  Unless someone thinks otherwise, I’ll move on and live with it.  

    	  Quote: 	
		   	
  

Do not archive   	  Quote: 	
		    	
http://www.matronic           - MATRONICS available via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com===================[/b]http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [b]

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: Elevators

Mike, 

  

 There is a "Gotcha" at this point.   I am  out of town in Door County, but I can come by and take a look when I get back if  you like.  The horns may be misaligned, but you have to be careful how you  drill them.  Check the archives on this.

  

 Dave Leikam

#40496  N89DA  (Reserved)

Muskego, WI



 [quote]   ---

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Elevators

I couldn't remember the gotcha but now I do.   My horns where different lengths as well.

  

 When looking at the horns from behind, make sure to  measure and drill from the shorter side into the longer side.  I got lucky  with this but I know at least one other builder had a problem here.  If you  measure and drill from the longer side, you may not have sufficient  material under the hole on the short side.

  

 Dave Leikam

#40496  N89DA  (Reserved)

Muskego, WI

 [quote]   ---

mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Elevators

Thanks Dave.  I drilled them today.  Here’s what happened.  The aft horn by chance (per plans, drill the aft one first) was the long one.  Ugh!!!  Fortunately, the horns were only about 3/16” different in length so I still have 1/8” in edge distance on the short one.  I wish I had seen your post earlier today.  I would have drilled the short one into the long one.  Disappointing but not the end of the world.  It’ll work.  I checked my trusty Aircraft Handbook and the edge distance needs to be ½ or more of the fastener diameter.  

   

I’ll have to keep an eye on it.  As far as one being aft of the other, it was only by about 1/16th.  So I could have drilled the forward one and I would have a much better edge distance for the hole.  Oh well.  When I build my second or third RV it’ll be more like a Swiss watch….Those Saint RV’s must be pretty nice!    

   

Thanks for the tip.  This should really be archived.  I didn’t search, maybe it is.  

   

Mike (It really isn’t a Swiss watch) Doble  

Builder 40691  

Working on my tail.....but almost done!!!  Yippeeee  

Waukesha, Wisconsin  

   

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam

 Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:28 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Elevators  

  

  

       

I couldn't remember the gotcha but now I do.  My horns where different lengths as well.  

    

   

    

When looking at the horns from behind, make sure to measure and drill from the shorter side into the longer side.  I got lucky with this but I know at least one other builder had a problem here.  If you measure and drill from the longer side, you may not have sufficient material under the hole on the short side.  

    

   

    

Dave Leikam

 #40496  N89DA (Reserved)

 Muskego, WI  

  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Dave Leikam (daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:27 PM  

    

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Elevators  

    

   

    

Mike,   

    

   

    

There is a "Gotcha" at this point.   I am out of town in Door County, but I can come by and take a look when I get back if you like.  The horns may be misaligned, but you have to be careful how you drill them.  Check the archives on this.  

    

   

    

Dave Leikam

 #40496  N89DA (Reserved)

 Muskego, WI  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Mike Doble (Home Office) (mikedoble(at)wi.rr.com)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 3:57 PM  

    

Subject: Elevators  

    

   

  

Please help.  I’ve attached the elevators to the horiz stab and adjusted to have a roughly even gap at the trailing edge of the stab.  Height wise though there is a 3/16” difference between the left and right elevator horns.  Anyone else have this issue?  Is there a fix or is this a common misalignment?  Just drill away and live with the difference?  

   

Thanks in advance.  

   

   

Mike Doble  

Builder 40691  

Working on my tail.....  

Waukesha, Wisconsin   	  Quote: 	
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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Elevators

Arrrghhh, missed this thread by about 20 minutes... drilled my elevator horns by the plans and screwed up... drilled the longer horn into the shorter one, just like Mike described:(



Called Van's, they told me that it will hold up as it is. I have 3/16 of steel from the hole to the edge of the metal. They said for peace of mind I could weld it and redrill.



Tim, If you could add this on your tips page it may save someone from doing the same thing.



There goes my swiss watch airplane... has anyone tried opening up the elevators and replacing the horns with new ones?



Regards,

Lenny

#40803

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Elevators

Will do...can someone type up the text in a nice complete wording of

what the problem is, and what the solution is?  I'll be happy to

post it.  Try to give plans page numbers and all if you can.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Lenny Iszak wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Arrrghhh, missed this thread by about 20 minutes... drilled my elevator horns by the plans and screwed up... drilled the longer horn into the shorter one, just like Mike described:(

 

 Called Van's, they told me that it will hold up as it is. I have 3/16 of steel from the hole to the edge of the metal. They said for peace of mind I could weld it and redrill.

 

 Tim, If you could add this on your tips page it may save someone from doing the same thing.

 

 There goes my swiss watch airplane... has anyone tried opening up the elevators and replacing the horns with new ones?

 

 Regards,

 Lenny

 #40803

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185030#185030

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Elevators

Following the instructions that tells one to find the most aft (11-3) and 

drill a 3/16th hole 3/8 x 1/2 from the edges is not a screw up,. I did per 

the plans and aligned everything fine. I have a 3/16 span from the hole to 

the edge and it will be just fine in regards to strength- IMO. I'm not 

worried and I assure you many before us followed the instructions as well 

and they are doing just fine.

certainly make a change to the plans as a Gotcha and drill another way, no 

harm but in my book I'll stick to the plans and know that Van's has this as 

an acceptable building standard.



BTW- wait until you get to the fusellage, there will be 70% staring at the 

plans looking ahead;10% trying to figure out if you're doing it right and 

10% doing it.



Pascal



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Lenny Iszak" <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>

Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:16 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Elevators



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Arrrghhh, missed this thread by about 20 minutes... drilled my elevator 

 horns by the plans and screwed up... drilled the longer horn into the 

 shorter one, just like Mike described:(



 Called Van's, they told me that it will hold up as it is. I have 3/16 of 

 steel from the hole to the edge of the metal. They said for peace of mind 

 I could weld it and redrill.



 Tim, If you could add this on your tips page it may save someone from 

 doing the same thing.



 There goes my swiss watch airplane... has anyone tried opening up the 

 elevators and replacing the horns with new ones?



 Regards,

 Lenny

 #40803





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185030#185030

me(at)chadcarlson.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: Elevators

Hi All,



As a mere mortal observer (read: wannabe builder) collecting building notes 

(thanks to all of you & especially Tim!), I am wondering if someone would be 

willing to provide a photo or two depicting the potential problem and 

workaround.



At this point, the issue is very curious to me because without sufficient 

reference material (remember - I have no plans & apparently can't get a set 

until I buy my empennage kit), I am left to think this issue results from a 

flawed manufacturing process. I could be completely wrong, but the elevator 

horns sound like something that ought to be fashioned using fairly 

consistent materials, templates, and techniques. Obviously, model aircraft 

are poor analog to a full-scale build, but horns from a given model 

manufacturer are virtually identical in every way from package to package, 

regardless of size. Is that not the case with the RV-10 kit?



Now that I have said the above, what am I missing in my attempt to 

understand the problem??



Chad E. "Swiss watch maker wannabe" Carlson



me(at)chadcarlson.com

www.chadcarlson.com



"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never 

lost."



do not archive



---

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Elevators

Chad,



The parts in question are welded steel and very similar to R/C horns except they attach to the face of the elevator spar and rib. The "gotcha" if it exists is based, on where to drill the hole between the two horns. You center the elevators then drill a hole through each horn to make your pushrod attach point. Use the link below to see the horns. Tim has "discussion plans" on his site and you can get a good idea of what folks are talking about. And for all you guys plugging away on the elevators and scratching your head....it get's much easier...HA!!!!  HA!!!! HA!!!!....Wait till you bend your fifth trim tab!!!



http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec09-pg07.html



Rick Sked...How long does the last 5% take???

If one more neighbor asks me how much longer I'm gonna scream!!

40185

---

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Elevators

Let me try this, it has been a while since I did it..years....and I am not a

watch maker...



The horns have a relative position to each other based on the construction

of the elevators and their mounting and alignment.  Even if the horns we

made perfectly, the construction and mounting of the individual elevators

will affect their end position in 3-d space. 



Does that help any?



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080

--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: Elevators

My last 10% took about 40% of the total build time........and I am not done yet, wheel fairings go to the painter in the next week or so.....



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080



--

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: Elevators

Although a good reference I think this is the step in question where one 

actually drills the elevator

http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec11-pg03.html



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Rick Sked" <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:28 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Elevators



[quote] 



 Chad,



 The parts in question are welded steel and very similar to R/C horns 

 except they attach to the face of the elevator spar and rib. The "gotcha" 

 if it exists is based, on where to drill the hole between the two horns. 

 You center the elevators then drill a hole through each horn to make your 

 pushrod attach point. Use the link below to see the horns. Tim has 

 "discussion plans" on his site and you can get a good idea of what folks 

 are talking about. And for all you guys plugging away on the elevators and 

 scratching your head....it get's much easier...HA!!!!  HA!!!! 

 HA!!!!....Wait till you bend your fifth trim tab!!!



 http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec09-pg07.html



 Rick Sked...How long does the last 5% take???

 If one more neighbor asks me how much longer I'm gonna scream!!

 40185

 ---

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