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Securing the Seats

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PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Securing the Seats

While flying with a guy in an AMD 601XL, he mentioned that the seats can slide forward in a stall, resulting in some exciting moments as the seats interfere with the sticks (Dual Sticks) resulting in the inability to pull up until you get the seat slid back out of the way...



Any ideas on how to secure the seats from sliding forward?  I'd need to retain access underneath the seats.



Velcro?  Straps?  What works for you...?



Thanks,



- Pat

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: Securing the Seats

I was taught that to recover from a stall you push forward - either his 

seats are in front of the stick, or his elevators work the opposite way 

round form normal!!!



Dave Johnson



---

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: Securing the Seats

Seats (meaning seat cushions) slide forward at a high angle of attack?  Huh? 

  

 I've got 200 hours in my AMD-made 601XL ... and a heck of a lot of that time was spent at high angle of attack while trying to calibrate the wacky AoA indicator in the Dynon (since fixed by a software upgrade).  Been through the high pitch high bank maneuvers for the commercial pilot test.  NEVER felt the seat cushion move.  

   

 I can't say that it is a non-issue for everyone, but it sure is not an issue for me.  .  

  

 Seems like a snug seat belt would be the best bet!   

  

 Frank Derfler-- 

Discussing All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com  

Pilots:  See me at www.flyinflorida.com 

 Guys: See www.greatguybooks.com 

  [quote][b]

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Securing the Seats

"Seems like a snug seat belt would be the best bet! "

  

 Agree.  

  

 Have dual sticks in my XL.  Never had seats  move (although mine are made from memory and "work out" foam filled auto seat  covers, not two piece "store bought". With the bucket type of seating  arrangement, I can not visualize how the seat cushion could move to interfere  with the stick, unless one went to zero/neg G while decelerating with a really  loose seat belt.

  

 Have done over a hundred stalls will various  power/flap/turning/climbing/descending rates during airwork  exercises.  Stalls, at least in my XL, are a non-event and I can keep it in  a stall shudder without departing while keeping wings level with rudder,  although, I have gone stop-to-stop with ailerons with the airplane is a stall  shudder, and the airplane starts to roll in the direction of the input  and has not departed opposite to input, as in a Cessna and other  airplanes.  Relaxing back pressure to lower the nose to increase air  speed brings it out of the stall.

  

 Tony Graziano

 XL/Jab; N493TG; 380 hrs

 [quote]   ---

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Securing the Seats

 	  david_a_g_johnson(at)btin wrote: 	
		  I was taught that to recover from a stall you push forward - either his seats are in front of the stick, or his elevators work the opposite way round form normal!!!



Dave Johnson

--- 	




Glad that you were taught that..... 



Back to relevancy.  



The scenario was described like this:  



1)  Stall.   

2)  Experience reduced G.  

3)  Butt no longer holding seat cushion down.  

4)  Seat cushion pushed forward.

5)  Stick is forward to recover from stall.

6)  Seat cushion now interferes with stick.



Perhaps this was an isolated case.  As told to me by the pilot, it was an instructor and a student who were flying.  It is entirely possible that the student didn't have his seat belt tight enough.



I was curious if others had encountered this situation, and if so, what did they do to prevent its recurrence.  Ergo, what could *I* do to prevent it.



Thanks,



- Pat

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Securing the Seats

You could use velcro to secure the seat bottom or just apply something  

like non-skid tape to the seat pan to provide more friction to keep  

the seat from sliding.



On May 27, 2008, at 2:59 PM, PatrickW wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Glad that you were taught that.....



 Back to relevancy.



 The scenario was described like this:



 1)  Stall.

 2)  Experience reduced G.

 3)  Butt no longer holding seat cushion down.

 4)  Seat cushion pushed forward.

 5)  Stick is forward to recover from stall.

 6)  Seat cushion now interferes with stick.



 Perhaps this was an isolated case.  As told to me by the pilot, it  

 was an instructor and a student who were flying.  It is entirely  

 possible that the student didn't have his seat belt tight enough.



 I was curious if others had encountered this situation, and if so,  

 what did they do to prevent its recurrence.  Ergo, what could *I* do  

 to prevent it.




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

cndmovn(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Securing the Seats

Exactly...velcro them in place.  I did that on my Kitfox as well and it worked just fine.  Easy enough to remove the seats if they need cleaning but secure enough to top any shifting 

  

 Paul

 On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)>

 

You could use velcro to secure the seat bottom or just apply something like non-skid tape to the seat pan to provide more friction to keep the seat from sliding.  



On May 27, 2008, at 2:59 PM, PatrickW wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Glad that you were taught that.....



Back to relevancy.



The scenario was described like this:

 

1)  Stall.

2)  Experience reduced G.

3)  Butt no longer holding seat cushion down.

4)  Seat cushion pushed forward.

5)  Stick is forward to recover from stall.

6)  Seat cushion now interferes with stick.

 

Perhaps this was an isolated case.  As told to me by the pilot, it was an instructor and a student who were flying.  It is entirely possible that the student didn't have his seat belt tight enough.



I was curious if others had encountered this situation, and if so, what did they do to prevent its recurrence.  Ergo, what could *I* do to prevent it.

 

	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.   

 



  [quote][b]

BobTezyk

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midlothian, TX

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Securing the Seats

Pat,



When I worked at Learjet, (in the early 80's) they anchored both the seats and carpet with Velcro.  The Velcro had an adhesive backing but they determined that it was not up to the task.  They used an industrial strength contact cement from a company called Kent.  When it was applied to both sides of the bond and allowed to dry, it was permanent - even on cloth or foam.  



I have re-done several aircraft interiors with that system and I can say that it is the only way to go.  Just make sure you use a lot of Velcro to get a bond that will stand up to several G's of butt pressure.

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: Securing the Seats

Ummm... if the seat cushions are attached to the airplane with a double bond adhesive, how do you wash them?  --Frank Derfler

-- 

Discussing All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at http://mostlyflying.blogspot.com  

 

Pilots:  See me at www.flyinflorida.com 

Guys: See www.greatguybooks.com   [quote][b]

BobTezyk

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midlothian, TX

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Securing the Seats

No Frank,



You double bond the Velcro loop side to the cushion and the hook side to the structure.  2 one inch strips going the length of the cushion should do it.

BobTezyk

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midlothian, TX

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Securing the Seats

Make that 2 one inch WIDE strips going the length of the cushion.

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