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XL down - France

 
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Iberplanes



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

Hello friends,

I´ve posted a recent accident involving an XL 601 in france. Please check the ZBAG on yahoo. The pilot saved his life thanks to the BRS System.
http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/2007/85-k070707/pdf/85-k070707.pdf

Take care.


Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain [quote][b]


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golson



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

Uh Oh.......Is this another wing failure?

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sanyu(at)wanadoo.fr
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

yes you are wricht but it is alsoo specified the plane was a copie of the 601
the pilot has buy it in polen and the manufacter is a copier and whit not relations whit chris heinz
johnny decorte ch701 1500 hr flicht
p^s sorry for my englisch hoping you understand it

http://www.lafermeaquatique.com
[quote] ---


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notsew_evets(at)frontiern
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

This is a one year old accident report....
[quote] ---


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William Dominguez



Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: XL down - France Reply with quote

Unfortunately yes. Fortunately, the pilot survived. So far, it appears that this one was the result of over stressing the airframe. The report mentions something about the pilot having a habit of puling hard Gs.

William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
golson wrote:
Uh Oh.......Is this another wing failure?

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d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

I doubt the G reading would have been much use anyway. The shock of the
inflating chute would likely be fairly high. It will be nice that this
airframe can be examined.

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Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: XL down - France Reply with quote

I still find it strange that he would reset it.

As far as examining it. Doubtful. It happened almost a year ago.

d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico wrote:
I doubt the G reading would have been much use anyway. The shock of the
inflating chute would likely be fairly high. It will be nice that this
airframe can be examined.

---


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William Dominguez



Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

Suspicious isn't it. Lets keep in mind that the cause of this accident was identified as "realization of a maneuver exceeding structural resistance of the aircraft". This report seems to be a final one since the cause of the accident is included.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

Gig Giacona <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"

I still find it strange that he would reset it.

As far as examining it. Doubtful. It happened almost a year ago.
d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico wrote:
[quote] I doubt the G reading would have been much use anyway. The shock of the
inflating chute would likely be fairly high. It will be nice that this
airframe can be examined.
[quote][b]


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Jaybannist(at)cs.com
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:23 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

What is really suspicious to me is that this incident happened a year ago. Why is it BIG (and pervasive) news now?

I am now believing that there are some on this list that WANT the Zodiac to appear flawed and must have a compelling reason to discredit the design. Could it be that they have a need for Zenith to cease to exist?

Besides those whom this string has intimidated to quit building, I know of at least one flying XL that is being parted out because of this witch hunt.

Jay in Dallas
William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
Suspicious isn't it. Lets keep in mind that the cause of this accident was identified as "realization of a maneuver exceeding structural resistance of the aircraft". This report seems to be a final one since the cause of the accident is included.
William Dominguez



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cndmovn(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:01 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

I suspect it was dug up by the "Engineering" group on this forum to bolster their position for an independent design review.

Once again, huge speculations are being made, uninformed comments are being presented, and unsupported "conclusions" are being made.

It was a great last few weeks on the list with actually building comments being made and none of this crap. Lets get back to the purpose of this list, which is to trade building information and support.

Paul

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:20 AM, <Jaybannist(at)cs.com (Jaybannist(at)cs.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jaybannist(at)cs.com (Jaybannist(at)cs.com)

What is really suspicious to me is that this incident happened a year ago. Why is it BIG (and pervasive) news now?

I am now believing that there are some on this list that WANT the Zodiac to appear flawed and must have a compelling reason to discredit the design. Could it be that they have a need for Zenith to cease to exist?

Besides those whom this string has intimidated to quit building, I know of at least one flying XL that is being parted out because of this witch hunt.

Jay in Dallas


William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com (bill_dom(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

>Suspicious isn't it. Lets keep in mind that the cause of this accident was identified as "realization of a maneuver exceeding structural resistance of the aircraft". This report seems to be a final one since the cause of the accident is included.
>
>
>William Dominguez
>





[b]


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William Dominguez



Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: XL down - France Reply with quote

What is really suspicious to me is that this incident happened a year ago. Why is it BIG (and pervasive) news now?

Why? because no one on this list knew about this accident until just recently. Don't see how is this suspicious, are we suppose to know every accident that happened around the world right after it happens?

I am now believing that there are some on this list that WANT the Zodiac to appear flawed and must have a compelling reason to discredit the design. Could it be that they have a need for Zenith to cease to exist?

Do you mean that we have Zenith competition infiltrated in this list? or do you believe that some builders, after investing time and money in their projects, they now just want to ruin Zenith reputation by discrediting the design?

Besides those whom this string has intimidated to quit building, I know of at least one flying XL that is being parted out because of this witch hunt.

Those who quit building did it because of the accidents, no need to look for a scapegoat.

William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

do not archive


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golson



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

I am not a builder yet.......But doing my homework and research it seems to me there might be something that really needs to be looked at. I understand there is or was a stress test of the wings from Zentih but there is something going on here. Look at the history of commercial and military accidents. When there is an accident it is inspected by FAA so intense
as to not see this happen again. If there is another related accident of the same nature they immediately ground all related planes to this incident untill they fix the problem. There have been major accidents in commercial and military aircraft in the past that were either design or material defects. No matter who builds the plane, the wing failure seems to happen with unusually the same results. I might be beating a dead horse but it doesn't take rocket science to figure this one out. What does it really take to get the attention of design engineers to look more closely at this design. Everyone remembers the AWACS incident:

On 22 September 1995, a JT3D engined Boeing E3 AWACS, based on the B707 4 engined airliner, was making an early morning departure from Elmdorf USAF base Anchorage, Alaska, USA. Just after the heavily loaded aircraft lifted off a large flock of Eastern Canada geese (Branta canadensis canadensis, wt 7kg, 15 16) were encountered. Birds were ingested in engines 3 and 4, rendering the aircraft unflyable. It crashed on rising ground approximately 40 seconds later killing the 24 crew. The flock of geese were known to frequent the aerodrome and had probably been alarmed by a C130 which departed shortly before the AWACS.

Understand this is not design or material failure related. My point is what does it take to get the message across. My best friend was stationed at that Air Force Base and this was a failure of the top brass. Environmentalists stopped the military from clearing these protected birds from the runways. therefore it was the pilots responsibility to take off in this situation all the time. Not a good idea but nobody listened untill the fatal accident occured. Since then they have cleared the runways of these pests.

So how many more accidents does it take before someone wakes up and smells the coffee.
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Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: XL down - France Reply with quote

Have you read the designers letters on the issue? To paraphrase, it is his position that the accident aircraft had either been over stressed at the time of the accident or that the final failure was a result of cumulative overstress of the airframe. He has provided a virtually free correction method which is to add a couple of little plastic parts that limits the available downward force of the elevator.

There are those of us that think that the designer is the best person to go to for this. There are others that don't. To each their own. I went out to the airport and added the modification to my not yet flying 601xl and it took me about 30 minutes.

golson wrote:
I am not a builder yet.......But doing my homework and research it seems to me there might be something that really needs to be looked at.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

this was over a year ago, old news.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

I recommend you don't build, buy a production plane. NON of the crashes are result related. If you want details, go read results of each one. Go build an another plane.

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golson



Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

Sounds good to me...

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: XL down - France Reply with quote

Greg
good luck in your purchase of a production aircraft, i am sorry you decided against the zodiac, best of luck.

Juan

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