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Dennis Jones

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Poplar Grove, IL

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Batteries

O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide  selection. For example FAYTX20 18AH 270CCA  11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. $132.95.  Unless Interstate batteries are junk these batt. numbers smoke an  Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH and over 50% increase in CCA for the  same weight and approximately the same price. Or have a little more power and  save over 25% in weight plus your pocket book. There about the  same size overall compared with each other and the other types including the  Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing and if you have  problems you go back and talk to them in person. No internet return  headaches.

  

 Jonsey

   [quote][b]

Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: Batteries

I believe Bob would say to do the tests and gather the data.



Sam



On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Dennis Jones <djones(at)northboone.net (djones(at)northboone.net)> wrote:

 [quote]       O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide  selection. For example FAYTX20 18AH 270CCA  11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. $132.95.  Unless Interstate batteries are junk these batt. numbers smoke an  Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH and over 50% increase in CCA for the  same weight and approximately the same price. Or have a little more power and  save over 25% in weight plus your pocket book. There about the  same size overall compared with each other and the other types including the  Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing and if you have  problems you go back and talk to them in person. No internet return  headaches.

  

 Jonsey

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

simon(at)synchronousdesig
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Batteries

And report findings back to the group.  This will take several years if

the batteries are worth their weight in lead.  It's worth it, though,

because we need new known good vendors of these new technology AGM

batteries.

Interstate used to be my vendor of choice for car batteries long ago when

they had superior batteries.  Then they started carrying Optima batteries,

which were six gell cells wrapped in cylindrical fashion.  They were

military technology fresh out to the civilian world.  I've had them in two

of my three cars for about five years now with no problems until last

month.  One of them gave out, so I replaced it with an Odyssey flat plate

AGM cell.  Although many have great success with the PC-680 and PC-925L

for years, I'm using a different Odyssey battery (automotive) for this

application, but it uses the same technology - flat plate instead of

circular plate like the Optima uses.  I am hoping it delivers the

advertised 8-10 years instead of the 5 years Optima delivered.

Simon in Florida

 	  Quote: 	
		   I believe Bob would say to do the tests and gather the data.

 Sam

 On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Dennis Jones <djones(at)northboone.net>

 wrote:

>  O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide selection. For example

> FAYTX20 18AH 270CCA 11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL

> 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. $132.95. Unless Interstate batteries are junk

> these batt. numbers smoke an Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH

> and over 50% increase in CCA for the same weight and approximately

> the same price. Or have a little more power and save over 25% in

> weight plus your pocket book. There about the same size overall

> compared with each other and the other types including the

> Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing

> and if you have problems you go back and talk to them in person.

> No internet return headaches.

>

> Jonsey

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Batteries

Dennis Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide selection. For example FAYTX20 18AH 270CCA 11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. $132.95. Unless Interstate batteries are junk these batt. numbers smoke an Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH and over 50% increase in CCA for the same weight and approximately the same price. Or have a little more power and save over 25% in weight plus your pocket book. There about the same size overall compared with each other and the other types including the Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing and if you have problems you go back and talk to them in person. No internet return headaches.



 Jonsey

   

Some simple physics here.  There are very few tricks in building a 
	


lead-acid battery.  You don't get more AH or CCA for free.  About the 

only way to increase either value without increasing the battery size is 

to somehow get more contact area between the lead and the acid.  The 

only way to accomplish that is to squeeze both the lead plate and the 

mat between them thinner.  CCA can theoretically be negatively effected 

if the lead gets to thin, but that won't realistically ever happen in a 

battery robust enough to be marketable.  Unless Interstate has some 

packaging techniques that support and protect the lead in their 

batteries, they will necessarily be less robust.



Personally, I would buy the Interstate, mount it to the airplane with 

shock absorbing materials (sit it on a rubber mat?), and expect to 

change it every two years.

mkimball(at)gci.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Batteries

FWIW I am a big fan of my 925 Odyssey.  Small in size and a really cool

custom tray for it to sit in.  Sits way in back of my Super Rebel and spins

my 10:1 Chevy 350 with no problem even after months of sitting without

receiving a charge.  It's about 4, maybe 5 years old now.  No sign of

degradation.



Mike



--

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Batteries

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  I believe Bob would say to do the tests and gather the data. 	
	
  >>>

 

 Seems every time the battery issue pops up I listen to the agonizing over the issue and offer this solution that has worked quite nicely on my RV for almost five years, currently about $80 bux/pop:

 

 

 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P231-ND

 

 Sad part is that the first one I bought was maybe $45...

 

 >From The PossumWorks in TN,

 Mark

   

 

 --

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Batteries

This is the battery that I am using..  I plan to replace one of them each year, so max age will be two years.  

   

 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=522-1014-ND  

   

Sadly, the first battery I bought was about $25, the second about $35, and now they are $55!  

   

Bill B  

  

       

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fiveonepw(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:59 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Batteries    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  I believe Bob would say to do the tests and gather the data. 	
	
    

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>

 
	


 Seems every time the battery issue pops up I listen to the agonizing over the issue and offer this solution that has worked quite nicely on my RV for almost five years, currently about $80 bux/pop:  

  

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P231-ND

 

 Sad part is that the first one I bought was maybe $45...

 

 >From The PossumWorks in TN,

 Mark    

   

  

-----Original Message-----

 From: simon(at)synchronousdesign.com

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 8:26 am

 Subject: Re: Batteries   	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: simon(at)synchronousdesign.com (simon(at)synchronousdesign.com)

 

 

 

 And report findings back to the group.  This will take several years if

 

 the batteries are worth their weight in lead.  It's worth it, though,

 

 because we need new known good vendors of these new technology AGM

 

 batteries.

 

 

 

 Interstate used to be my vendor of choice for car batteries long ago when

 

 they had superior batteries.  Then they started carrying Optima batteries,

 

 which were six gell cells wrapped in cylindrical fashion.  They were

 

 military technology fresh out to the civilian world.  I've had them in two

 

 of my three cars for about five years now with no problems until last

 

 month.  One of them gave out, so I replaced it with an Odyssey flat plate

 

 AGM cell.  Although many have great success with the PC-680 and PC-925L

 

 for years, I'm using a different Odyssey battery (automotive) for this

 

 application, but it uses the same technology - flat plate instead of

 

 circular plate like the Optima uses.  I am hoping it delivers the

 

 advertised 8-10 years instead of the 5 years Optima delivered.

 

 

 

 Simon in Florida

 

 

 

 > I believe Bob would say to do the tests and gather the data.

 

 >

 

 > Sam

 

 >

 

 > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Dennis Jones <djones(at)northboone.net (djones(at)northboone.net)>

 

 > wrote:

 

 >

 

 >>  O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide selection. For example

 

 >> FAYTX20 18AH 270CCA 11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL

 

 >> 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. $132.95. Unless Interstate batteries are junk

 

 >> these batt. numbers smoke an Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH

 

 >> and over 50% increase in CCA for the same weight and approximately

 

 >> the same price. Or have a little more power and save over 25% in

 

 >> weight plus your pocket book. There about the same size overall

 

 >> compared with each other and the other types including the

 

 >> Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing

 

 >> and if you have problems you go back and talk to them in person.

 

 >> No internet return headaches.

 

 >>

 

 >> Jonsey

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	


          

  

Stay informed, get connected and more http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List --> http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===========   

  

       [quote][b]

Bret Smith

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: Batteries

Mark,

  

 Do you know if this battery will fit inside the  PC-680 battery box?

  

 Bret Smith

RV-9A "Canopy"

Blue Ridge,  GA

www.FlightInnovations.com

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Bret Smith
RV-9A (Emp)

gyoung

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: Batteries

Not all of them will fit without some modification to the  battery box. The Odyssey PC-680 corners (and the box) have a big radius on the  corners and the other brands have much sharper corners. Consequently they don't  fit even though width and depth are the same. I cut the back out of the box  Van's provides and riveted the brackets on leaving a little extra depth. If I  ever put an Odyssey in it I can use some rubber baffle material as a  shim.

  

 Regards,

Greg Young

  



 [quote]         From:    owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret    Smith

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 7:05 AM

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:    Batteries

   

   Mark,

    

   Do you know if this battery will fit inside the    PC-680 battery box?

    

   Bret Smith

RV-9A "Canopy"

Blue Ridge,    GA

www.FlightInnovations.com

   [quote]     ---

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Batteries

 	  Quote: 	
		  Do you know if this battery will fit inside the  PC-680 battery box? 	
  >>>

 

 Here's the datasheet from Digikey for the Panasonic:

 

 

 http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-X1220P_LC_X1220AP.pdfhttp://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680.htm

 

 ..and for the PC680 from West Coast Batteries:

 

 http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680.htm

 

 I found this battery is available from Summit Racing for $120, but didn't do an extensive price search.

 

 Main difference I see is the 680 has 6mm threaded holes in the top for connection with bolts, the Panasonic has lead lugs for connection with 5mm bolts (supplied with battery).  I doubt there is a hillabeans difference in their internal construction or performance.  Other than the extra 3Ah the Panasonic claims.  I've used the Panasonic exclusively in my plane (O-320, 150 hp) and also the recent IO-360 I helped with, and it has performed very well in both cases.  The Jabirus I am now working on use Odyssey batteries, but I'm trying to educate them...

 

 Looks like they are about the same size.  I also measured the box included with Van's FWF kit for the recent project (which I did not use) and it appears either will fit in the box.

 

 Mark

 

 From: Bret Smith <smithhb(at)tds.net>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 7:04 am

 Subject: Re: Batteries

 

                Mark,

    

   Do you know if this battery will fit inside the  PC-680 battery box?

    

   Bret Smith

 RV-9A "Canopy"

 Blue Ridge,  GA

 www.FlightInnovations.com

  [quote]    ---

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Batteries

Dang- let's try that again:

  

  

  http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-X1220P_LC_X1220AP.pdf

 

 Gawd I hate changing ISPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 Mark

 [/url] 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


    Stay informed, get connected and more [url=http://mobile.aol.com/productOverview.jsp?productOverview=aol-mobile-overview&?&ncid=aolmbd00030000000139]with AOL on your phone. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Batteries

At 12:42 AM 6/2/2008 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  O.K. how about this. Interstate has a wide selection. For example FAYTX20 

18AH 270CCA 11 lbs. $104.95 or the other end FAYTX24HL 21AH 350CCA 14 lbs. 

$132.95. Unless Interstate batteries are junk these batt. numbers smoke an 

Odyssey. That's a 20% increase in AH and over 50% increase in CCA for the 

same weight and approximately the same price. Or have a little more power 

and save over 25% in weight plus your pocket book. There about the same 

size overall compared with each other and the other types including the 

Odyssey. And they are AGM type. Drive across town buy the thing and if you 

have problems you go back and talk to them in person. No internet return 

headaches.



Jonsey


	


   When selecting a battery, consider life-cycle costs

   of ownership. Assuming one subscribes to the idea that

   a battery needs to be a KNOWN quantity of stored energy

   for the purpose of supporting a KNOWN e-bus load for

   a KNOWN period of time, how do you plan to verify

   the battery's suitability for continued airworthiness?



   Cost of ownership includes $time$ expended in original

   purchase, tools to test, $time$ expended in supporting

   those tests. If you purchase a premium battery then there's

   a certain amount of pressure to expended still more $time$

   testing so as to squeeze the last bit of value before

   removing the battery from service.



   Alternatively, consider using the lowest cost battery

   you can find and simply replace it periodically.

   Batteries like this:



http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=P174-ND



   have performed well in OBAM aircraft. If you replace

   the battery when it's CAPACITY falls below your KNOWN

   e-bus operating limits, then it's still quite capable of

   cranking an engine. Therefore, issues like cold cranking

   amps are very low priority for selecting a battery.



   If you're a fair-weather, VFR pilot and you carry

   dark-panel backup equipment . . .



http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf



   . . . then you can run a battery until it simply doesn't

   crank the engine any more. In this case, you MIGHT

   be able to get more $value$ out of a premium battery.

   There are many operating variables that drive

   battery service life. It's exceedingly difficult to

   quantify return on investment for one style of battery

   over another. If it were my airplane, I'd

   put in the least expensive battery I can find. Run

   a real-time, e-bus endurance test at one year and every

   six months thereafter. Replace the battery when

   e-bus support drops below 2 hours (or what ever

   number you've selected for your modus-operandi).

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Batteries

Update- I tried to stuff a Panasonic LC-X1220P (same dimensions for the 

17Ah version) into the Van's PC-680 box (supplied with FWF kit) and it 

is a no-go.  Appears this battery is just slightly too big for the box- 

a one-sixteenth shave in length would be enough to make it fit.  Not 

the reason I opted to make a "box" of my own design, but if using Van's 

kit, the PC-680 looks like a better fit.



Oh well...



Mark

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

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