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brakes ?

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bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: brakes ?

Long ago I spent very little time at airports, but that seems to be 

changing, and because of that, I switched back to the original drum 

brakes (OEM from Azusa ).  They act as if out-of-round and it causes a 

really annoying shimmy -- the varying brake power goes with each turn of 

the wheel or wheels.  Also long ago I looked into it enf to find that 

one drum was in fact slightly out of round and replaced it, but the 

problem is still bad.  I've thought it might go away as shoes get 

seated, but by now that may have been wishful thinking.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-Ben

 Firestar KXP

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: brakes ?

Hi Ben,

           I put 5" drum brakes on my Firestar... I didn't know they were



running 4 1/2" on them.... My 5's seem just fine....

http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/LSXIII.html 



 It's my "Cheap" tires that are outa round.



 Some of the guys use "Band" brakes...Supposed to be pretty good.



                       Gotta Fly...

.

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Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: brakes ?

At 07:08 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Long ago I spent very little time at airports, but that seems to be 

changing, and because of that, I switched back to the original drum 

brakes (OEM from Azusa ).  They act as if out-of-round and it causes 

a really annoying shimmy -- the varying brake power goes with each 

turn of the wheel or wheels.  Also long ago I looked into it enf to 

find that one drum was in fact slightly out of round and replaced 

it, but the problem is still bad.  I've thought it might go away as 

shoes get seated, but by now that may have been wishful 

thinking.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,

-Ben

Firestar KXP


	


I had that problem a long time ago. Had a guy that put them on some 

kind of lath? and

spun the drums. I guess he cut or sanded them "round" or true? 

Anyway, he fixed the

problem for me.

_________________
Possum

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: brakes ?

Ben,

   I have the same original brakes on my Firestar and the same problem. I did find the last time I fooled with them that one of the housings was rubbing on the drum. I had thought that it was the brake shoe. A grinder took care of that problem. I was a bit surprised since I had run the blasted things that way for a lot of years. It was not noticeable to the naked eye. The original wheels were drilled badly out of line (by the original owner.) when the drum was seated. I was able to achieve satisfactory results by drilling the holes that the drum was fastened to the wheel over-sized ( a lot) and using a nyloc nut and flat washers on the mounting bolts. That allowed the drum to float when the brakes were applied. There is so little metal on the drums that I decided not to try to turn them on a lathe.

Larry C

_________________
do not archive

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: brakes ?

Last I looked--there were lots of mountain bike disk brakes for sale 

on E bay... I have them on my firefly... They work just fine... very 

light also...Herb

At 10:18 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Ben,

    I have the same original brakes on my Firestar and the same 

 problem. I did find the last time I fooled with them that one of 

 the housings was rubbing on the drum. I had thought that it was the 

 brake shoe. A grinder took care of that problem. I was a bit 

 surprised since I had run the blasted things that way for a lot of 

 years. It was not noticeable to the naked eye. The original wheels 

 were drilled badly out of line (by the original owner.) when the 

 drum was seated. I was able to achieve satisfactory results by 

 drilling the holes that the drum was fastened to the wheel 

 over-sized ( a lot) and using a nyloc nut and flat washers on the 

 mounting bolts. That allowed the drum to float when the brakes were 

 applied. There is so little metal on the drums that I decided not 

 to try to turn them on a lathe.

Larry C



--------

do not archive





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186322#186322

bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: brakes ?

This (mountain bike disc brakes) is something I've always considered 

doing.  As a gauge as to how much stopping power you get, how much rpm 

can you add before your Firestar starts to move with the brakes on?  

(and which engine?) 

Thanks.

-Ben



herb wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Last I looked--there were lots of mountain bike disk brakes for sale 

 on E bay... I have them on my firefly... They work just fine... very 

 light also...Herb

 At 10:18 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:

> 

>

> Ben,

>    I have the same original brakes on my Firestar and the same 

> problem. I did find the last time I fooled with them that one of the 

> housings was rubbing on the drum. I had thought that it was the brake 

> shoe. A grinder took care of that problem. I was a bit surprised 

> since I had run the blasted things that way for a lot of years. It 

> was not noticeable to the naked eye. The original wheels were drilled 

> badly out of line (by the original owner.) when the drum was seated. 

> I was able to achieve satisfactory results by drilling the holes that 

> the drum was fastened to the wheel over-sized ( a lot) and using a 

> nyloc nut and flat washers on the mounting bolts. That allowed the 

> drum to float when the brakes were applied. There is so little metal 

> on the drums that I decided not to try to turn them on a lathe.

> Larry C

>

> --------

> do not archive

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186322#186322

>

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: brakes ?

Ben



    Firefly...they hold at max rpms...6k or so static... Seated,, the 

nose will start to head south before the brakes let go... 447 

engine.. Three blade ivo   60 inch..



   Mine are made by Shimano...35 bucks each wholesale... Wish my son 

still worked for the company...       Herb

At 10:14 AM 6/5/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



This (mountain bike disc brakes) is something I've always considered 

doing.  As a gauge as to how much stopping power you get, how much 

rpm can you add before your Firestar starts to move with the brakes on?

(and which engine?) Thanks.

-Ben



herb wrote:

>

>

>Last I looked--there were lots of mountain bike disk brakes for 

>sale on E bay... I have them on my firefly... They work just 

>fine... very light also...Herb

>At 10:18 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:

>>

>>

>>Ben,

>>    I have the same original brakes on my Firestar and the same 

>> problem. I did find the last time I fooled with them that one of 

>> the housings was rubbing on the drum. I had thought that it was 

>> the brake shoe. A grinder took care of that problem. I was a bit 

>> surprised since I had run the blasted things that way for a lot 

>> of years. It was not noticeable to the naked eye. The original 

>> wheels were drilled badly out of line (by the original owner.) 

>> when the drum was seated. I was able to achieve satisfactory 

>> results by drilling the holes that the drum was fastened to the 

>> wheel over-sized ( a lot) and using a nyloc nut and flat washers 

>> on the mounting bolts. That allowed the drum to float when the 

>> brakes were applied. There is so little metal on the drums that I 

>> decided not to try to turn them on a lathe.

>>Larry C

>>

>>--------

>>do not archive

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>Read this topic online here:

>>

>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186322#186322

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: brakes ?

At 11:14 AM 6/5/2008, Ben Ransom wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  This (mountain bike disc brakes) is something I've always considered 

doing.  As a gauge as to how much stopping power you get, how much rpm can 

you add before your Firestar starts to move with the brakes on?

(and which engine?) Thanks.


	


I have the Black Max brakes on my Ultrastar.  Though sold for aircraft, I 

suspect they're based on mountain bike brakes.  They will hold me against 

full throttle.



-Dana

--

  Canadian DOS prompt: EH?\>

bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: brakes ?

Herb, Dana,

Wow, full static.  That's impressive -- -to imagine having to not over 

brake in my Kolb.  What a concept!  (I'd be very happy with even 4k + 

smooth braking)

-Ben

Dana Hague wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 11:14 AM 6/5/2008, Ben Ransom wrote:

> This (mountain bike disc brakes) is something I've always considered 

> doing.  As a gauge as to how much stopping power you get, how much 

> rpm can you add before your Firestar starts to move with the brakes on?

> (and which engine?) Thanks.

 I have the Black Max brakes on my Ultrastar.  Though sold for 

 aircraft, I suspect they're based on mountain bike brakes.  They will 

 hold me against full throttle.

 -Dana

 -- 

  Canadian DOS prompt: EH?\>

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: brakes ?

Yep, what your experiencing has always been a problem.  Some are 

worst than others.  There are a couple other options that may take a 

mod to the axle bracket.  One is switching to band brakes - may not 

be quite as strong as the expansion type.  Since they still use the 

drum they may till produce the same problem but generally better 

since the bands float.  The other is look into the Tracy O'Brien 

hydraulic disk brakes.

http://www.tracyobrien.com/

They work good on CGS Hawks.  Should be able to adapt them to a Kolb 

by adding a back mounting plate to the axle bracket.  Uses a 

hydraulic hand activated lever much like the brakes you have 

now.  Took less than two hours to install and bleed out on a CGS Hawk.

jerb

At 09:07 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 07:08 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:

>

>

>Long ago I spent very little time at airports, but that seems to be 

>changing, and because of that, I switched back to the original drum 

>brakes (OEM from Azusa ).  They act as if out-of-round and it 

>causes a really annoying shimmy -- the varying brake power goes 

>with each turn of the wheel or wheels.  Also long ago I looked into 

>it enf to find that one drum was in fact slightly out of round and 

>replaced it, but the problem is still bad.  I've thought it might 

>go away as shoes get seated, but by now that may have been wishful 

>thinking.  Any suggestions?

>Thanks,

>-Ben

>Firestar KXP

I had that problem a long time ago. Had a guy that put them on some 

kind of lath? and

spun the drums. I guess he cut or sanded them "round" or true? 

Anyway, he fixed the

problem for me.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: brakes ?

At 01:09 PM 6/5/2008, Ben Ransom wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Herb, Dana,

Wow, full static.  That's impressive -- -to imagine having to not over 

brake in my Kolb.  What a concept!  (I'd be very happy with even 4k + 

smooth braking)


	


Well, the thrust line on my US is a wee bit lower than all the other 

Kolbs... 



-Dana

--

  I no longer need to punish, deceive or compromise myself. Unless, of 

course, I want to stay employed.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: brakes ?

I have considered the Tracy Obrien route, but I'm addicted to separate brakes. They make life so much easier. I just made a deal to use two bicycle brake handles with the originals. Has any one priced or figured out how to do the separate braking with the Tracy's

Larry C

do not archive

_________________
do not archive

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: brakes ?

At 09:36 PM 6/5/2008, lcottrell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have considered the Tracy Obrien route, but I'm addicted to separate 

brakes. They make life so much easier. I just made a deal to use two 

bicycle brake handles with the originals. Has any one priced or figured 

out how to do the separate braking with the Tracy's


	


I have the Black Max brakes (which normally come with a single hand 

operated master cylinder) on my Ultrastar, operated independently by a pair 

of Hegar heel brake master cylinders.   Makes a great combination.



-Dana

--

  They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.

Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: brakes ?

its not a big deal adding toe brakes to about  anything  to keep em separate  that's the way I like em anyway but  it's only my opinion 

  

 Ellery in Maine

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 6/5/2008 9:40:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kolb-List message posted by: "lcottrell"    <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>



I have considered the Tracy Obrien    route, but I'm addicted to separate brakes. They make life so much easier. I    just made a deal to use two bicycle brake handles with the originals. Has any    one priced or figured out how to do the separate braking with the    Tracy's

Larry C

do not archive



--------

do not    archive





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186436#186436

	




Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: brakes ?

Ben,

I have the Black Max brakes with the stock hand grip master cylinder on my KXP.  I can only get to about 4200RPM with full back stick before the nose starts to go over, but no slippage.  The brakes can make the tires skid on landing if you have enough grip (oops). They were a great solution for me as I needed new axles and wheels anyway.  $389 for brakes, axles, & wheels is a good deal.  Don't get the included tires though.  They won't hold up, especially if you want to land off airport.  Routing the little plastic brake lines is a lot easier to do in a tidy manner than cables.  If you are interested in the Black Max brakes, go to their website (flyfbi.com) and look at the drawings in the installation manual .pdf file.  It is a bone simple, well thought out design and plenty for a KXP with a 503.

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

bartmo(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: brakes ?

[quote][b]

customersupport(at)tnkolb
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: brakes ?

ben, kolb aircraft stopped selling these type brakes for this very reason,

we now use the OBRIAN  HYDRAULIC  disc brake, DONNIE.----- Original

Message -----

From: "Ben Ransom" <bransom(at)ucdavis.edu>

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 7:08 PM

Subject: brakes ?

 	  Quote: 	

 Long ago I spent very little time at airports, but that seems to be

 changing, and because of that, I switched back to the original drum

 brakes (OEM from Azusa ).  They act as if out-of-round and it causes a

 really annoying shimmy -- the varying brake power goes with each turn of

 the wheel or wheels.  Also long ago I looked into it enf to find that

 one drum was in fact slightly out of round and replaced it, but the

 problem is still bad.  I've thought it might go away as shoes get

 seated, but by now that may have been wishful thinking.  Any suggestions?

 Thanks,

 -Ben

  Firestar KXP

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