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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Slow flying...

I just flew my personal best (or is that worst?) slow ground speed,  

covering the ground at an amazing 9 mph. The wind was about 220° (at) 7,  

according to the local (JXN) ATIS, but up at 3000' MSL, it was about  

37kt, according to Ft. Wayne, IN "winds aloft" reports. At any rate,  

I was being blown at 162mph GPS groundspeed (108mph airspeed) toward  

the east, when I decided to turn back and see how slow I could fly  

groundspeed into the wind. I was at 3000 MSL, heading about 250°, and  

I started slowing the plane down. I kept the same 3000 altitude until  

I got the groundspeed down to 20 mph, then I started to lose  

elevation....about 125fpm on the VSI. I kept throttling back until it  

got down to 9mph groundspeed, 55mph airspeed, and I quit playing  

games when I got down to 2700' MSL. This was with no flaps, and I  

think  the rpm was about 1900 at that point...not paying too much  

attention to that detail.



I've heard about people flying backwards, and I was pretty close to  

that, but chickened out before I got over my head. Has anybody slowed  

their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed? I'm not trying to claim any  

records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed  

more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for  

doing this.



Lynn

Model IV Speedster, 2200 Jabiru with 520+ hours

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Slow flying...

I once bounced on takeoff because my plane got airborne so fast that

the mains were off before I realized it, and I pushed the stick forward 

a bit to lift the tail and the already flying mains hit the ground. It was

about a 20KT headwind straight down the runway.



Jeff

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Slow flying...

 	  Quote: 	
		  I've heard about people flying backwards, and I was pretty close to

that, but chickened out before I got over my head. Has anybody slowed

their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed? I'm not trying to claim any

records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed

more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for

doing this. 	




I've never flown backwards but I've gotten close to zero with no loss in altitude. I was in the middle of a long cross country at 8000ft when I noticed my ground speed was pushing 150. I just did a 180 and trimmed for level flight at 50mph. I don't see why you'd have to look out for anything in particular though. You could be flying backwards at 100mph but as long as there's no turbulence and your airspeed is above stall then you're OK right?

_________________
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Slow flying...

It seems that way to me, Luis.



Lynn



On Jun 6, 2008, at 2:24 PM, wingnut wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    You could be flying backwards at 100mph but as long as there's no  

 turbulence and your airspeed is above stall then you're OK right?



 --------

 Luis Rodriguez

 Model IV 1200

 Rotax 912UL

 Flying Weekly

 Laurens, SC (34A)





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186535#186535

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Slow flying...

I did.  Smooth air but strong wind at about 3500 ft.  Flaps out just to see how slow it would go.  Very near stall so I was concentrating on airspeed, altitude, and groundspeed.  The groundspeed started to go up and my passenger said "hey we're going backwards".



Maxwell Duke

S6/TD/IO240

Dublin, GA



--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Subject: Slow flying...

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 12:39 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>



I just flew my personal best (or is that worst?) slow ground speed,  

covering the ground at an amazing 9 mph. The wind was about 220° (at) 7,  

according to the local (JXN) ATIS, but up at 3000' MSL, it was about  

37kt, according to Ft. Wayne, IN "winds aloft" reports. At any rate, 



I was being blown at 162mph GPS groundspeed (108mph airspeed) toward  

the east, when I decided to turn back and see how slow I could fly  

groundspeed into the wind. I was at 3000 MSL, heading about 250°, and  

I started slowing the plane down. I kept the same 3000 altitude until  

I got the groundspeed down to 20 mph, then I started to lose  

elevation....about 125fpm on the VSI. I kept throttling back until it  

got down to 9mph groundspeed, 55mph airspeed, and I quit playing  

games when I got down to 2700' MSL. This was with no flaps, and I  

think  the rpm was about 1900 at that point...not paying too much  

attention to that detail.



I've heard about people flying backwards, and I was pretty close to  

that, but chickened out before I got over my head. Has anybody slowed  

their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed? I'm not trying to claim any  

records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed  

more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for  

doing this.



Lynn

Model IV Speedster, 2200 Jabiru with 520+ hours



=========== 	
	


         [quote][b]

josandt(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Slow flying...

Years ago there was an article (I think it was in Sport Aviation... can't be sure) about a guy who flew backwards down the runway at a local airshow at about 10 kts... it was thought at the time the article was written to be the only guy to have accomplished the feat (at least at a public event).



 	  Quote: 	
		   I've heard about people flying backwards, and I was pretty close to

 that, but chickened out before I got over my head. Has anybody slowed

 their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed? I'm not trying to claim any

 records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed

 more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for

 doing this. 


	




<<I've never flown backwards but I've gotten close to zero with no ...>>



John Sandt, Kitfox 7 project, Ridgecrest, CA

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: Slow flying...

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

 I've heard about people flying backwards


	


Not a Kitfox, Lynn, but in our club, a Rans S5 took off from runway 36 and did a traffic pattern without changing heading! At about 800 ft, it went backward and landed on the same runway with the nose still pointing to the north.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Do not archive

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Slow flying...

 	  Quote: 	
		  I got over my head. Has anybody slowed 

their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed 	




Yes I have flown my Kitfox backwards.   You GPS will not show a negative number though.  You have to look at the ground in relatation to your strut or your landing gear to see it .  Next Time I will take a movie for you. 



winds here over 20 knots on ground today  maybe higher up higher --maybe I will try to break away today for a backwards flight aloft ?

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

Was the "backwards flying" just an observation, or did you see a  

reading that was negative? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious if  

your GPS or whatever instrument would show a negative speed.



Lynn

On Jun 6, 2008, at 2:59 PM, W Duke wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I did.  Smooth air but strong wind at about 3500 ft.  Flaps out  

 just to see how slow it would go.  Very near stall so I was  

 concentrating on airspeed, altitude, and groundspeed.  The  

 groundspeed started to go up and my passenger said "hey we're going  

 backwards".



 Maxwell Duke

 S6/TD/IO240

 Dublin, GA



 --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Slow flying...

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 12:39 PM



 

 I just flew my personal best (or is that worst?) slow ground speed,  

 covering the ground at an amazing 9 mph. The wind was about 220° (at)  

 7, according to the local (JXN) ATIS, but up at 3000' MSL, it was  

 about 37kt, according to Ft. Wayne, IN "winds aloft" reports. At  

 any rate, I was being blown at 162mph GPS groundspeed (108mph  

 airspeed) toward the east, when I decided to turn back and see how  

 slow I could fly groundspeed into the wind. I was at 3000 MSL,  

 heading about 250°, and I started slowing the plane down. I kept  

 the same 3000 altitude until I got the groundspeed down to 20 mph,  

 then I started to lose elevation....about 125fpm on the VSI. I kept  

 throttling back until it got down to 9mph groundspeed, 55mph  

 airspeed, and I quit playing games when I got down to 2700' MSL.  

 This was with no flaps, and I think the rpm was about 1900 at that  

 point...not paying too much attention to that detail. I've heard  

 about people flying backwards, and I was pretty close to that, but  

 chickened out before I got over my head. Has anybody slowed their  

 Kitfox to a negative groundspeed? I'm not trying to claim any  

 records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed  

 more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for  

 doing this. Lynn Model IV Speedster, 2200 Jabiru with 520+ hours  

 ===========



 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

Ok, Michel....that's pretty dramatic proof of backwards flying. I had  

a friend say he took off on a runway, lifted up a bit, and found  

himself looking at the spot he departed from....the start of the  

runway. Thanks...



Lynn



On Jun 6, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> I've heard about people flying backwards



 Not a Kitfox, Lynn, but in our club, a Rans S5 took off from runway  

 36 and did a traffic pattern without changing heading! At about 800  

 ft, it went backward and landed on the same runway with the nose  

 still pointing to the north.



 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 Do not archive

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">



 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>



 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

How did I just KNOW that you'd have done it, Dave : )

On Jun 6, 2008, at 5:14 PM, dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

> I got over my head. Has anybody slowed

> their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed

 Yes I have flown my Kitfox backwards.   You GPS will not show a  

 negative number though.  You have to look at the ground in  

 relatation to your strut or your landing gear to see it .  Next  

 Time I will take a movie for you.

 winds here over 20 knots on ground today  maybe higher up higher -- 

 maybe I will try to break away today for a backwards flight aloft ?

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186576#186576

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

skyflyte(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

I have flown backwards too! I took off, flew streight ahead for about 10 minutes, decended and landed on the departure end of the runway I departed!  Not in my Kitfox, but a weight shift Quicksilver in the early days of ultralighting.

 Mike

 Model II N490MC

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> 



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson 

 

 How did I just KNOW that you'd have done it, Dave : ) 

 

 On Jun 6, 2008, at 5:14 PM, dave wrote: 

 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" 

 > 

 > 

 >> I got over my head. Has anybody slowed 

 >> their Kitfox to a negative groundspeed 

 > 

 > 

 > Yes I have flown my Kitfox backwards. You GPS will not show a 

 > negative number though. You have to look at the ground in 

 > relatation to your strut or your landing gear to see it . Next 

 > Time I will take a movie for you. 

 > 

 > winds here over 20 knots on ground t  oday m  > h  [quote][b]

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

Rearward flight, or flying backwards, is no chore at all.  Ask any helicopter pilot.



John Hart

KF IV

Wilburton, OK

Retired US Army Helicopter pilot



--

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

At 09:39 AM 6/6/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm not trying to claim any

records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed

more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for

doing this.


	


Well. . . landing will be a little tricky. 

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

temco(at)telusplanet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

Dave



You are quite right the GPS will not register backwards --- but all you have

to do is look at it and it will tell you that you have now turned 180

degrees and going at some speed ""Backwards"" As you accelerate from

backwards it will again swing towards you heading.  Nuf said.



Ted



DO NOT ARCHIVE

--

SkySteve

Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Slow flying...

Here's a Husky flying backwards.



http://www.youtube.com/v/c99ZHZw97rU&hl

_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Slow flying...

I think you're right, Guy....let's see....mains first, then gently  

touch the tailwheel, allowing it to caster around, then stick in gut  

to plant the tail...no problem!

Hmmmmm....come to think about it, go-arounds would be a bitch!



Lynn

do not archive



On Jun 6, 2008, at 6:35 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 09:39 AM 6/6/2008, you wrote:

> I'm not trying to claim any

> records, but it would be informative to know if anybody has slowed

> more than this, and what problems, if any, should one look out for

> doing this.



 Well. . . landing will be a little tricky. 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



 Do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Slow flying...

Lynn:  

   

My instructor had me do the flying backwards while training (C172N)..  We were about 5000’ over the field when we pulled the airspeed back to bout 60 and sure enough slowly but surely we drifted backwards enough that it was easy to see.  On regular intervals he would have me slow the plane down and hang on the prop at full throttle until it stalled.  

   

Wind at the ground was close to 30 and I certainly wouldn’t have been flying solo that day.  

   

   

[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C8C8CB.C52CE830[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

   

   

--

image003.jpg

Description:

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7.29 KB

Viewed:

8378 Time(s)

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: Slow flying...

Interesting to hear all the various tales of backwards/reverse  

flying, here and in person. Sure opens ones eyes to the various  

aspects of putting something up into the elements...thanks folks.

Probably better not to try landing backwards with floats though, eh  

Noel. Oh wait a minute, here comes Dave to tell us he's done it! : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/528 hrs





On Jun 7, 2008, at 4:54 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn:



 My instructor had me do the flying backwards while training  

 (C172N)..  We were about 5000’ over the field when we pulled the  

 airspeed back to bout 60 and sure enough slowly but surely we  

 drifted backwards enough that it was easy to see.  On regular  

 intervals he would have me slow the plane down and hang on the prop  

 at full throttle until it stalled.



 Wind at the ground was close to 30 and I certainly wouldn’t have  

 been flying solo that day.



 Noel Loveys

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Scotty(at)dembones.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: Slow flying...

Hi all

I'm a long time "lurker" here.

Unfortunately Something happened Friday to a very close family friend that

is quite along the line of this thread and I just have to share it with you.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/429625.html



Scott Hutson

Avid Model C

Rans S9

Mooney 

Walla Walla Wa



--

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