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Wheels up landing...

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lamprey(at)infocom.co.ug
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Wheels up landing...

My condolences to Jos... I really do think it will  happen one day to anyone with a monowheel.

  

 I have just done the same, with my classic here in  Uganda.  Details are: Classic with 912UL, warpdrive ground adjustable, I've  flown 500 hours in her.  After a series of circuits, let the gear handle  down halfway to slow down, and forgot the final movement and lock.  Landed  on soft grass, even softer underneath from recent rain... big bang, prop  shatters, slide to halt...  with instant recognition of the problem and  feeling like complete idiot...

  

 As usual, it the trail of events, having flown 60  hours in the previous 3 weeks in a Cessna 182 with gear safely welded  down!... general fatigue and just not with it.

  

 Minimal damage to the airframe, wiped off the  transponder antenna, the fuselage flap fairings are slightly grazed.  When  we raised it with a hoist, wheel came down a locked quite normally, and all  inspection so far says the undercarriage / engine frame is OK.  On  'landing' the wheel went it to be supported by the throttle box, and that will  need some work (do Europa have these or do I have to fabricate a new one as in  the old days?).

  

 The engine is the problem, it has the slipper  clutch, but the gearbox sounds pretty graunched on turning the prop.   So, I have to get the Rotax specialist up from South Africa (3000 km away) to go  through the whole thing - big expense!!.  Apparently you cant use the  warpdrive hub again, but at least I have spare blades.

  

 Can anyone with similar experience tell me what  else I should look for on the general inspection...?

  

 Many thanks, and greetings to all the  fraternity.

 Richard Lamprey

   [quote][b]

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carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Hi Richard - sorry to hear of your  mishap.

  

 Just a personal observation but I feel that  lowering the gear halfway is a habit that may have contributed towards your  expensive landing. Its a nuisance but I have always lowered and locked the  undercarriage down well before getting onto finals (ie: downwind leg). The  lowering of the gear prompted by using the checklist in the circuit and a final  confirmation of gear locked down on turning finals (and catch locked in  gate).

  

 But then I have only logged 200 hours to your  500 so it may happen to me yet.

  

 I have smashed a prop (same as yours) due to a  groundloop but luckily the engine was idling and all that was required was a  check on the gearbox - fortunately the UK Rotax agent is only 30 miles away. I  didnt have to replace the prop hub, just the blades. Nearly 180 hrs flown since  the ding and no problems.

  

 Im surprised your gearbox appears to have sustained  so much damage. I thought the point of the slipper clutch was to prevent  this.

  

 Again comiserations,

  

 Carl Pattinson

 G-LABS

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Hi All,



I have over a thousand hours of retract time, but in a single pilot

operation I still wonder when my turn to leave the gear up will come.



So, with all that said I am becoming more interested in what systems I

can put in place to minimize a gear up landing.  Once I got the

oportunity to get some time in an Airforce 3 axis simulator for a

KC135.  One thing that really impressed me were the voice alerts at 50

and 30 feet generated from a radar altimeter.



While systems like this are getting beyond the scope of home builders,

I was wondering if anyone has had good experience with ultrasonic

based devices that can perhaps measure 10 feet off the ground.



I am thinking that taking inputs from manifold pressure, airspeed,

gear microswitches and some altitude input and feeding them into a

simple micro controller could generate a nice warning system.



With that said there are plenty of examples of two pilot operations

ignoring gear up warnings, but having an additonal system in my

aircraft would be nice.



I'd be interested in peoples input and ideas.  If as a group we can

come up with an approach I would be prepared to build and program a

suitable micocontroller.



Paul

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Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Paul McAllister a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'd be interested in peoples input and ideas.  If as a group we can

 come up with an approach I would be prepared to build and program a

 suitable micocontroller.

   


	


Paul and all,



A couple of microswitches in series on the throttle lever and gear to 

trigger a horn when the throttle is retarded and the gear up works very 

well.



FWIW,



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Hi Gilles,



Yes that was my original thought too.  My Comanche had a similar

setup,  but once I still found myself turning from base to final with

the gear up after a distraction from the Control Tower who were trying

to advert a mid air.



Would it have worked when I finally closed the throttle? The Comanche

like many aircraft with a higher wing loadings liked to be landed

carrying a little power.  I could imagine a scenario where I wasn't

warned until I was in the flair which would have been very late.



Still thinking about it.  Thanks for the idea, keep them coming.



Paul

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Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Paul McAllister a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   Would it have worked when I finally closed the throttle? The Comanche

 like many aircraft with a higher wing loadings liked to be landed

 carrying a little power.  I could imagine a scenario where I wasn't

 warned until I was in the flair which would have been very late.

   

How about setting the switch at 10 % power or so ?
	




Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Hi Jos



Thx. for sharing your experience.



Wayne and I built a 5 pound, 3/4 hp 4 foot flying wing. To make it make it

more manageable on landing we installed articulatable NASA Leading Edge

droop. Worked great, but if you touched down with droop down, it would

break the Sullivan actuator/s. Thus we modified the transmitter with a

simple button, when you flare, push button and droop retracted.



My feathers were severely ruffled after the second time I forgot to

retract. On a good day I would be just about following the aerocraft, but

could get behind it very easy. Needless to say I spent plenty of time

changing actuators! First was to have Wayne remind me to retract on flare,

spent time replacing actuators. Made a checklist and stringent procedure,

spent time replacing actuators. Slightest thing not go perfect as

anticipate and could forget to retract.



I can make a direct comparison to forgetting to drop Europa gear.



"When" I forget to drop Europa gear, we made what is a pretty structural

up stop for swing arm:

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album216&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Installing an adjustable pressure switch driven by pitot (purchased from

Europa, what they use for stall warner) to liven things up below lets say

70 knots, and a switch for each outrigger and a switch for lever down

latch. Will drive a bright LED aimed at pilots eyes, and probably a stick

shaker. Stick shaker will be a mini cell phone style mini motor with

offset weight. If all is well will get 3 green LEDs.



Here is a how we ran wires for outrigger switches:

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album217&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Will not get green LED unless outrigger latch is ready to take some abuse

without collapsing.



BTW installed a lever downlatch spring to make sure latch stays down:

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album215&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



My Undercarriage mounting frame had things undercenter! Anyone with a

monowheel best make sure you have overcenter by at least 1/16" up to bout

3/32"



Hi Paul



"I was wondering if anyone has had good experience with ultrasonic

 	  Quote: 	
		   based devices that can perhaps measure 10 feet off the ground."


	


Can's say we have good experience, but some experience:



http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album236&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Ron Parigoris

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Gilles Thesee wrote:



That's exactly what our leader, (Burt Rutan) drew up in the Long EZ 

plans, for the same reason.

Graham

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-grenoble.fr>



 Paul McAllister a écrit :

> I'd be interested in peoples input and ideas.  If as a group we can

> come up with an approach I would be prepared to build and program a

> suitable micocontroller.

>   



 Paul and all,



 A couple of microswitches in series on the throttle lever and gear to 

 trigger a horn when the throttle is retarded and the gear up works 

 very well.



 FWIW,



 Best regards,

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Checked by AVG.

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: Wheels up landing...

Paul and all,



A couple of microswitches in series on the throttle lever and gear to 

trigger a horn when the throttle is retarded and the gear up works very 

well.



FWIW,



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr



I have  a similar system with high bright red and yellow leds + a horn.

Works well but I am sure if mentally loaded enough ALL the warnings are useless.

Automatic gear lowering is the only answer (!) then but what happens if...



Raimo (fixed gear makes life too easy)

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