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How many blades?

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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: How many blades?

How many blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the cylinders?



I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.



Jon

  [quote][b]

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: How many blades?

12!   

   

More will not hurt the engine but yourselves…….as you know it’s very tiring!  

     

Hans  

Dutch Yak Pilot  

        

  

Van: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens Jon Boede

 Verzonden: dinsdag 10 juni 2008 16:15

 Aan: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Onderwerp: How many blades?  

  

   

How many blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the cylinders?

 

 I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.

 

 Jon   	  Quote: 	
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ronwasson

Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 30

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: How many blades?

12 blades turns the crank around 6 times .  Each piston goes up down the bore at least twice for the complete four stroke cycle.  Real world I have never went more than four before I hit the lock. 

On Jun 10, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Jon Boede wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  How many blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the cylinders?



I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.



Jon

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: How many blades?

6 turns may encounter the lock, I have had oil come out of the pipe on

successive turns, I've always done 12 to be super sure that I've

gotten ALL the oil out of the cylinders, not just searching for a

lock.



All......my CJ is gone, I am no longer a Chang pilot, I'm now a measly

172 driver. I may still see some of you (at) AYS, so long...its been fun.



Ernie



On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:39 AM, ronald wasson

<ronwasson(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   12 blades turns the crank around 6 times .  Each piston goes up down the

 bore at least twice for the complete four stroke cycle.  Real world I have

 never went more than four before I hit the lock.

 On Jun 10, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Jon Boede wrote:



 How many blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the

 cylinders?



 I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.



 Jon



 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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netmaster15(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: How many blades?

I believe Ron is ASSUMING you have a 2 blade prop. If you have installed a 3 blade prop that changes things a bit.



-- ronald wasson <ronwasson(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

12 blades turns the crank around 6 times .  Each piston goes up down the bore at least twice for the complete four stroke cycle.  Real world I have never went more than four before I hit the lock.  

  On Jun 10, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Jon Boede wrote:

 [quote] How many blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the cylinders?



I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.



Jon

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

pilko2(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: How many blades?

The very real danger situation is oil trapped behind a closed inlet valve 

within the inlet manifold, as the engine

fires on another cylinder and subsequently the oil is ingested in a gulp 

............. well you know the rest !



Stick to 12 and play safe.................. more in sub zero situations 

would be my advice..........



---

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: How many blades?

True.....but......crank turing around 6 times is not  completely true....don't forget the prop makes less turns than the crankshaft  (1,54 if I'm not mistaking...)...i.e. the crank makes only about 4  turns.....

  

 Fly safe!

  

 Hans

 Dutch Yak  Pilot

  



   Van: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens  netmaster15(at)juno.com

Verzonden: dinsdag 10 juni 2008  16:58

Aan: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List:  How many blades?

 

I believe Ron is ASSUMING you have a 2 blade prop. If you have  installed a 3 blade prop that changes things a bit.



-- ronald wasson  <ronwasson(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

12 blades turns the crank around 6  times .  Each piston goes up down the bore at least twice for  the complete four stroke cycle.  Real world I have never went  more than four before I hit the lock.   

  On Jun 10, 2008, at 9:15 AM, Jon Boede wrote:

 [quote]   How many    blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the    cylinders?



I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.



Jon

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[b]

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: How many blades?

12 blades with the 2 blade prop.  18 blades on the 3  blade prop.  The gear ratio on the M14P is .658 to 1 (prop to  crank).

 Dennis

  

  

 ---

dstroud(at)storm.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: How many blades?

Hello Havard. I need to understand more about  basic starting and running of my Huosai

 engine in my Fairchild project. Just to be  clear, when you say prime 1 for each 10 celsius below

 100 Celsius     EGT    did you mean to say   OAT ? Thanks.

  

 David Stroud   Ottawa, Canada

C-FDWS  Christavia  

Fairchild 51 under construction CF-YXV

  

  

 [quote]   ---

wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: How many blades?

How many blades?

  

 Since any 4 stroke cycle engine cylinder requires 720 Deg.  of crankshaft rotation to complete a cycle then the basic MINIMUM requirement is  two revolutions of the crankshaft. This applies whether there is one cylinder or  nine.

  

 The nine cyl. radial has an 80 deg. cycle interval  (720/9). In two revolutions of the crank all cylinders 

 have completed a cycle. Two complete cycles are  recommended to clear the cylinders. Therefore with a direct drive engine  the theoretical minimum is 8 blades for a two blade and 12 for a three blade.  The actual minimum recommended is 9 blades for a two blade  prop.

  

 For the Huosai engine with a gear ratio of   0.787 the requirement for prop rotation would be 720 X 0.787 =  566.6 degs  or 1.57 turns per cycle. Two complete cycles would   take 3.15 revolutions or 7 blades (for a two blade)

  

 For the M14P it would be 720 X 0.658 = 474 degs. or 1.32  turns per cycle. Two cycles would need 2.63 revolutions  or  6   blades (for a two blade) or 9 for a three blade.

  

 More won't hurt but is really not necessary. 

 What is necessary is that the prop be  turned VERY SLOWLY so that at the first sign of oil from the exhaust  turning is stopped (and maybe slightly backed up) so that cylinder can be  completely drained before continuing.

  

 Cheers;

 Walt

 [quote]   ---

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: How many blades?

Dennis,  

   

As usual you are always right…..1,52 crank to prop…..  

     

Hans  

        

  

Van: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] Namens A. Dennis Savarese

 Verzonden: woensdag 11 juni 2008 0:51

 Aan: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Onderwerp: Re: How many blades?  

  

     

12 blades with the 2 blade prop.  18 blades on the 3 blade prop.  The gear ratio on the M14P is .658 to 1 (prop to crank).  

    

Dennis  

    

   

    

   

    

---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: How many blades?

Walt,

 Please correct me if I am wrong.  When you say 6  blades and 9 blades (2 blade prop and 3 blade prop), I interpret what you wrote  as 6 and 9 complete rotations or as I wrote in my reply 12 single blades and 18  single blades.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

Dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: How many blades?

Not to be a pain, but how about almost  none....

  

 Once I put the oil shut off valve and the oil scavage pump  sold by Kimball http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/web/m14p.php it  has eliminated the issue for me.  Now, I do pull the blades through 6 times  at the start of the day and and 12 (3 bladed prop) after it has been sitting for  more than a day.  However, I have never had a lock issue since  installation.   Also, i have almost completely eliminated any oil  coming from the exhaust or the intake drains even after weeks of shut  down.  Down to just a few drops.  I have 300 hours on the system and  my M14P.

  

 I can't recommend the system any higher.  Also the  folks at Jim Kimball Enterprises have always been great to work  with.

  

 DaBear

  

  

 [quote]   ---

wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: How many blades?

Hi Dennis;

  

 I am referring to blades. 6 blades is 3 revolutions of the  Propellor which (in the case of the M14) is 4.5 complete revolutions of the  engine or 2+ complete cycles of the engine.

  

 Walt

 [quote]   ---

kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: How many blades?

I usually just leave the mags off and use the “start” button to move the blades.   This way it usually passes well beyond 12 or 18 blades………….  This is an very exciting method, however it will give you a complete understanding of how well your clean kit is working………………………………….  

   

   

Kregg  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon

 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:32 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: How many blades?  

  

     

Hi Dennis;  

    

   

    

I am referring to blades. 6 blades is 3 revolutions of the Propellor which (in the case of the M14) is 4.5 complete revolutions of the engine or 2+ complete cycles of the engine.  

    

   

    

Walt  

  [quote]    

---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: How many blades?

Give visions of “Balls on Ones Forehead”. I hope you are doing this with a T-6.  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kregg Victory

 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:59 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: How many blades?  

  

  

   

I usually just leave the mags off and use the “start” button to move the blades.   This way it usually passes well beyond 12 or 18 blades………….  This is an very exciting method, however it will give you a complete understanding of how well your clean kit is working………………………………….  

   

   

Kregg  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon

 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:32 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: How many blades?  

  

     

Hi Dennis;  

    

   

    

I am referring to blades. 6 blades is 3 revolutions of the Propellor which (in the case of the M14) is 4.5 complete revolutions of the engine or 2+ complete cycles of the engine.  

    

   

    

Walt  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:40 AM  

    

Subject: Re: How many blades?  

    

   

    

Walt,  

    

Please correct me if I am wrong.  When you say 6 blades and 9 blades (2 blade prop and 3 blade prop), I interpret what you wrote as 6 and 9 complete rotations or as I wrote in my reply 12 single blades and 18 single blades.  

    

Dennis  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Walter Lannon (wlannon(at)persona.ca)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:06 PM  

    

Subject: Re: How many blades?  

    

   

    

How many blades?  

    

   

    

Since any 4 stroke cycle engine cylinder requires 720 Deg. of crankshaft rotation to complete a cycle then the basic MINIMUM requirement is two revolutions of the crankshaft. This applies whether there is one cylinder or nine.  

    

   

    

The nine cyl. radial has an 80 deg. cycle interval (720/9). In two revolutions of the crank all cylinders   

    

have completed a cycle. Two complete cycles are recommended to clear the cylinders. Therefore with a direct drive engine the theoretical minimum is 8 blades for a two blade and 12 for a three blade. The actual minimum recommended is 9 blades for a two blade prop.  

    

   

    

For the Huosai engine with a gear ratio of  0.787 the requirement for prop rotation would be 720 X 0.787 =  566.6 degs or 1.57 turns per cycle. Two complete cycles would  take 3.15 revolutions or 7 blades (for a two blade)  

    

   

    

For the M14P it would be 720 X 0.658 = 474 degs. or 1.32 turns per cycle. Two cycles would need 2.63 revolutions  or  6  blades (for a two blade) or 9 for a three blade.  

    

   

    

More won't hurt but is really not necessary.   

    

What is necessary is that the prop be turned VERY SLOWLY so that at the first sign of oil from the exhaust turning is stopped (and maybe slightly backed up) so that cylinder can be completely drained before continuing.  

    

   

    

Cheers;  

    

Walt  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Jon Boede (jonboede(at)hotmail.com)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:15 AM  

    

Subject: How many blades?  

    

   

  

How many blades does it take to ensure that you've cleared all the cylinders?

 

 I've heard to pull 6, 9, and 12.

 

 Jon   	  Quote: 	
		     	
	
     	
   	
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: How many blades?

OK.  Thanks Walt.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: How many blades?

.....and what happens if it hydraulic locks while you are  using the air start to rotate the prop?  Dead stop!!??  Then it's too  late.  Does your "shower of sparks" work?  You're taking a big risk  Kregg.  If you pull the blades by hand, at least you can feel a hydraulic  lock. 

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: How many blades?

Actually, I do pull the blades through by hand.  I was just having a bit of humor with all the emails about “How many Blades”  That is why I mentioned that it was an “very exciting method”  and a “complete understanding of how well the clean kit is working”    

   

Anyway, how about if we all simply start pulling 20 blades?  That way we are safe from hydraulic lock, and consider the extra blades, getting OUR blood flowing (or in some cases pass out) before we go on our exciting round engine flight……………………..  

   

Kregg  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

 Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:07 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: How many blades?  

  

     

.....and what happens if it hydraulic locks while you are using the air start to rotate the prop?  Dead stop!!??  Then it's too late.  Does your "shower of sparks" work?  You're taking a big risk Kregg.  If you pull the blades by hand, at least you can feel a hydraulic lock.   

    

Dennis  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: How many blades?

Whew!!!!  I'll stick with my 12 blades.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

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