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Un-gusts

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dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

Here are some phrases and terms I haven't figured out yet but I don’t need an explanation to. What is concerning is that I've seen them applied to accident scenarios on this list. 

 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

"kolb drop", "the air went away", and "un-gusts" 

  

I know being a pilot has the built in responsibility of always learning but in these cases I think it could work against you. Un-Gusts LOL!! I'm still cracking up. What's next, un-lift, my plane hit some un-lift and well as you can understand I was screwed. At some point someone has to call fiction fiction and made up made up and bull bull. If it's only to maintain some kind of integrity to this list, the phrases and terms used for years and to prevent new pilots from a total state of confusion. You know there is someone out there thinking “kolb-drop”, “un-gusts” I don’t understand this… (and you shouldn’t) 

  

Have you ever heard this… "the forecast calls for ceilings two thousand broken and winds 180 (at) 16 un-gusts to 21"  of course you haven’t and you won’t. Have you ever heard the tower say “use caution we’ve had reports of un-gusts 2 miles off of 18…” me neither and I won’t. Have you ever read in an FAA accident report that the plane went down due to un-gusts? Well your not going to. 

  

But you don’t have to believe me, call a briefer and tell them you were concerned about un-gusts along your route and ask him if he can recommend a alternate route around the un-gusts. Then ponder this answer, “well it’s defiantly gustier to the North so I’d say you should go there I expect much less un-gusting there.” 

  

The weather was pleasant in Texas today there were un-tornados, un-rain and un-wind all day long, un-fortunately it was very un-cold.  

  

Would there be un-gusts if there weren’t gusts and there wasn’t someone there to fly in it? 

  

  

 



 

 

 



 [quote]  Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:24:23 -0400

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

From: d-m-hague(at)comcast.net

Subject: RE: William Sullivans Accident



At 06:46 PM 6/18/2008, David Key wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I thought I'd heard everything now I'm hearing about un-gusts? LOL!! 	


What's so funny?  Sailors have spoken of "non puffs" for years.  It's a sudden, brief, lull in an otherwise steady wind.



-Dana



 --

 Please let me know if you did not receive this.  	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

This is just semantics! -- we all know what they mean by an "un-gust" (though I'd never heard it before). If it confuses a new pilot, he needs more instruction.Okay, better to say "the gust stopped", or "quit", but we all know what was meant.do not archive

On Jun 18, 2008, at 8:55 PM, David Key wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Here are some phrases and terms I haven't figured out yet but I don’t need an explanation to. What is concerning is that I've seen them applied to accident scenarios on this list.

 

"kolb drop", "the air went away", and "un-gusts"

 

I know being a pilot has the built in responsibility of always learning but in these cases I think it could work against you. Un-Gusts LOL!! I'm still cracking up. What's next, un-lift, my plane hit some un-lift and well as you can understand I was screwed. At some point someone has to call fiction fiction and made up made up and bull bull. If it's only to maintain some kind of integrity to this list, the phrases and terms used for years and to prevent new pilots from a total state of confusion. You know there is someone out there thinking “kolb-drop”, “un-gusts” I don’t understand this… (and you shouldn’t)

 

Have you ever heard this… "the forecast calls for ceilings two thousand broken and winds 180 (at) 16 un-gusts to 21"  of course you haven’t and you won’t. Have you ever heard the tower say “use caution we’ve had reports of un-gusts 2 miles off of 18…” me neither and I won’t. Have you ever read in an FAA accident report that the plane went down due to un-gusts? Well your not going to.

 

But you don’t have to believe me, call a briefer and tell them you were concerned about un-gusts along your route and ask him if he can recommend a alternate route around the un-gusts. Then ponder this answer, “well it’s defiantly gustier to the North so I’d say you should go there I expect much less un-gusting there.”

 

The weather was pleasant in Texas today there were un-tornados, un-rain and un-wind all day long, un-fortunately it was very un-cold.

 

Would there be un-gusts if there weren’t gusts and there wasn’t someone there to fly in it?



 

 

 



 

 

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:24:23 -0400

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

From: d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)

Subject: RE: William Sullivans Accident



At 06:46 PM 6/18/2008, David Key wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I thought I'd heard everything now I'm hearing about un-gusts? LOL!! 	


What's so funny?  Sailors have spoken of "non puffs" for years.  It's a sudden, brief, lull in an otherwise steady wind.



-Dana



--

 Please let me know if you did not receive this. 	  Quote: 	
		  get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

At 08:55 PM 6/18/2008, David Key wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  ...Un-Gusts LOL!! I'm still cracking up.... 	


 OK, fine.  "The airplane was flying just above stall speed when a brief lull in the otherwise steady wind put him below stall speed..."  Simpler to call it, as sailors do, a "non puff" (as opposed to a puff).  I called it an un gust because fliers don't use the term "puff" much.  Doesn't matter what you call it, the phenomenon is real.



 -Dana  



 

 

 --

  When you get it right

 mighty beasts float up into the sky

 When you get it wrong

 people die

 

 -Roger Bacon (c1384)    [quote][b]

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

I think the term is "wind shear".   

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 [quote]   ---

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

At 10:02 PM 6/18/2008, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I think the term is "wind shear".  	


 I suppose that could apply, but I always thought of wind shear as applying when an aircraft flew from a mass of air steadily moving at one velocity to another steadily moving at another velocity, whereas an un-gust (or gust) is more a transient bit of turbulence moving along with the wind, such that it temporarily cancels (or reinforces) the mainstream wind.  Put another way, a gust can be either positive or negative (or sideways, a sudden brief wind shift).



 I suppose I should've said "lull" instead... but I think of a "non puff" (or "un gust") as a particularly short and sharp edged lull.



 -Dana

 

 --

  Press any key... no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE!    [quote][b]

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

I have to land on this postage stamp  every time I fly (at least 

1,400 landings here - so far).

Only one way out and in. (Always land up hill) and we got trees at 

the north end anyway.

I learned a long time ago that if I have a 10 mph headwind while landing, I add

10 mph to the landing speed because it's going to "ungust" or quit 

when I get below

the trees. BUT I hate the south/tail winds the most. You still have 

to add speed to the

landing so you don't have loose controls (that adds 10 mph for the 

wind & 10 mph for

what you added - VGs are nice) . We are not allowed a "bounce" with 

downwind landings.

These Kolbs are like a horse, you've got to have enough wind going 

over the surfaces to make

it do what you want it to do. If you want that left wing up, you 

better have wind going over it

to make it do what you want it to do. Called "Horsing it in".



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_________________
Possum

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Un-gusts

Reminds me of a story of a young WWI  pilot who crashed his Bi-Plane on Take-Off. The ensuing 'Inquiry' found him guilty of poor technique and both grounded and demoted him. His appeal's to his superiors established a review committee that quashed the initial finding and instead attributed the accident to attempting a take off in meteorological conditions when there was no 'lift' in the air. His demotion was canceled and he  was restored to flying status forthwith.



The review committee also took the opportunity of congratulating the pilot on the occasion of his engagement to the commanders daughter.



(Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more !)



David.

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Un-gusts

Wind shear is quite different!  But can also cause an unexpected drop in airspeeddo  not archive



On Jun 18, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:

[quote]I think the term is "wind shear". 

 

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

[quote]---

jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: Un-gusts

In 26  years of reading all sorts of  magazines, catalogs, training materials, Practical Test Standards, Advisory  Circulars, & Accident reports, I`m laughing at this term, un-gust, cuz I`ve  never heard of it before.To me, un-gust is the equivalent of  "Suck".

  

 Jim "delete button" Kmet

 Cookeville, TN

 MK-3C

 Kolbra

  

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: Un-gusts

Kolbers,



Here is the FAA's definition of wind shear:



http://www.alphatrainer.com/handouts/new%20learning/FAA-H-8083-25/pg_10-9.pdf



Glider pilots are very familiar with wind shear.



Google did not reveal a FAA definition of "un-gust" or "ungust"



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



do not archive

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Un-gusts

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Google did not reveal a FAA definition of "un-gust" or "ungust"



 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester, IN



 do not archive


	


It is fairly obvious why you fellas are having trouble finding anything on 

"Un-Gust". You are looking in the wrong part of the regs. You should look 

under "D" for Dis-gust. That is what happens when you are flying into a 

headwind that suddenly abandons you and leaves you hanging rather than 

flying.

Larry C

Firestar II

409 hours

_________________
do not archive

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

Possum,

 We could start a new thread here ( and leave William alone for a while) .I'll start it with; :you call that a postage stamp?I've seen aircraft carriers smaller than that!



---

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

Lar,

 I'll buy your first book.Wish you were my neighbor

 Do not archivre.



---

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: Un-gusts

At 08:08 PM 6/19/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Possum,

  We could start a new thread here ( and leave William alone for a 

 while) .I'll start it with; :you call that a postage stamp?I've 

 seen aircraft carriers smaller than that!


	


Aaaah .......the luxury.

Having a carrier to land on,

no more down wind landings.

Something to dream about.



do not archive

_________________
Possum

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