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C Box and IVO props

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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: C Box and IVO props

FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive. The 3:1 ratio causes harmonic vibration with the three bladed prop damaging the electric motor and gears. (I went thru this personally)  

 

I ended up going to the IVO IFA 2 bladed medium prop as recommended by IVO (which is probably going to give you the weight you need) . 

 

That combination worked great, gave me great performance and the sound of that prop was like a lycombing. 

 

For what it's worth 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jab2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

20/06/2008 09:47 PM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Much foward stick on climbout 

     

 

 

 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Southern Skies <chris(at)southernskies.net>

 

 This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1.  I will look for the Ivo Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!

 In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.

 

 During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before. The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed. Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!

   the trailing edge)  before  the stick moves. There are a lot of joints so that may be normal.

 Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings- seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.

 

 Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The external counterweights are installed

 on the far outboard side.

 All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and down together with the wing. 

 

 Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in my opinion. 

 

 Any ideas what else I should look at?

 

 Thanks for any advice-

 

 

 Chris Bowles

 KF 3 Rotax 582

 

 >Chris 

 >I think you will find that a medium  ground adjustable 3 blade  Ivo is 

 >pretty close to 12 Lb,   with this prop however, you should run a  "C"  

 >or "E" reduction  unit,  probably with a 3 to 1 ratio  and follow their 

 >install directions .  The A  And  B  reduction boxes are just too light.

 >

 >Gary 4276M

 >582 

 

 

 

 -

 -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

gary-n-dorothy(at)tctwest
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: C Box and IVO props

While Ivo has lots of info on their site  ---which is  http://www.ivoprop.com/        It is always best to just call them and get the info from them directly as to  which prop they will recommend for each individual . 

  

 They steered me away from the ultralight model when I  called.

  

 Seems funny that the 3 blade ultralight  prop on a C box is a  no no  --and a medium  is OK ?

  

 Gary A,----  I'm glad you brought this up,   as I  had forgot about the ultralight model,  and a friend has a new  

 In flight adjustable ultralight prop  on his plane which is  still in the testing stages ( only a couple of hours flight time so  far)   Need to call him and have him confer with Ivo before. he has a  problem.  

  

 On mine,  I use a 72 inch 3 blade medium on a  3 to one gear box, and would like to use it with my  3.47-1 E drive ,  however,  a service bulletin #17 forbids that  with the side rail  motor mounts  I use. 

   Rotax engineers recommend the side rail mount  only for the c box at a 3-1 ratio.  

  Haven't found out why yet.  

  

 Gary 

 N4276M

 [quote]   ---

eskflyer

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 44
Location: AK

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: Re: C Box and IVO props

FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive.

This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can be used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on it and  use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1 ratio with no problems , with the ivo

_________________
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

Interesting....is this because of the harmonics that would be set up  

using a 3-blade with a 3:1 ratio? That is, the same blade hitting the  

same cylinder every third time around? I seem to recall gear-trains  

being set up with an odd number of teeth...called a "hunting tooth"  

to keep the same tooth from hitting a particular spot every time  

around. Is this the principle?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/530 hrs





On Jun 21, 2008, at 11:53 AM, eskflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C  

 drive.

 This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but  

 can be used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700  

 hours now on it and  use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1  

 or the 4.00-1 ratio with no problems , with the ivo



 --------

 FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW

 John Perry

 Kitfox 2 N718PD

 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA

 1220 Full Lotus





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with C box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic  by it's very nature will only occur with the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.

 

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. [quote][b]

kr2

Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2
Location: pomona park florida

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

From what I understand none of the composite prop manufacturers like to hear of their props being used on either direct drive or any PSRU with an even reduction number..i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 4.  Something to do with normal TV (Torsional Vibration) harmonics always occurring in exactly the same places for each prop rotation causing cracking at the prop roots.  

   

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C8D480.FCA5B600[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

Exactly Lynn.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

I got that from the various opinions offered. But  Rotax offers the 3:1 box and it is very popular. I can't help but think that a  reputable maker of aircraft engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous  combination or that somewhere I would not come across a service advisory. I've  done a few searches using various wording around 3.0:1 and there doesn't appear  to be anything out there. Not on Warp's website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes  up with Google. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a tale.  

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kr2

Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2
Location: pomona park florida

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: C Box and IVO props

eskflyer

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 44
Location: AK

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Re: C Box and IVO props

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1 box and it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable maker of aircraft engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous combination or that somewhere I would not come across a service advisory. I've done a few searches using various wording around 3.0:1 and there doesn't appear to be anything out there. Not on Warp's website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up with Google. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a tale.  

Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get a honest opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out from the source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it with 3:1 ratio . Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so u can do anything u want to but experience speaks for itself .

_________________
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: C Box and IVO props

Geee, I bet they're closed on Sunday. I could certainly call TODAY if I 

suspected for one minute there was a huge issue out there with Warp props on 

these boxes. I don't think there is, I think when Warp says any Rotax box, 

they mean it. I already posted that IVO has an issue with one series of 

props on several installations, I don't use an IVO. Did you miss your 

morning coffee or something? I'll spell it out for you, it's an IVO problem, 

not a gearbox problem.



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: C Box and IVO props

As an added enticement, while talking to the prop folks you may come across some related infl that they may be able to help with...  Today phone calls are cheap enough.  

   

Noel  

   

--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: C Box and IVO props

The call would be free if I chose to make it. I don't think there's an 

issue. There is only one service bulletin I could find and it affects only 

the ultralight IVO prop.

Read it yourself. http://www.ivoprop.com/servicebul2.htm



---

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