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Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

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heisan

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.



I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no actual performance specifications.



Has anybody used this combination?  Does it still make the 140mph cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?



I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' and above, so it may be a little underpowered?



Thanks,

Justin

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

Hi Justin,

If you build the HDS per plans, you'd be very disappointed with the 

2200A for that altitude.  You'd be better going with

a Corvair or a Stratus or the most recent 90 h p flat four Suzuki from 

Raven re-drives at. http://www.raven-rotor.com/



The 2200A direct drive depends upon a smaller prop and higher rpms.  If 

recently, someone were offering the engine

with a re-drive, perhaps it would fly, but you'd be concerned about 

overheating, etc trying to pull the heavier thickness wings

etc.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



heisan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.



 I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no actual performance specifications.



 Has anybody used this combination?  Does it still make the 140mph cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?



 I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' and above, so it may be a little underpowered?



 Thanks,

 Justin





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183866#183866

leo(at)zuehlfield.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

My HDS with a 912 UL cruses at 125 MPH (no wheel pants).



6,000' and above might be a strain, I do not know.  Hope someone else 

can comment.



-- 

Leo Gates

N601Z - CH601HDS TDO

Rotax 912UL

heisan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.



 I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no actual performance specifications.



 Has anybody used this combination?  Does it still make the 140mph cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?



 I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' and above, so it may be a little underpowered?



 Thanks,

 Justin

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

Hi Justin,



I have heard several builders proclaim the great performance the HDS 

gives with a Jabiru 3300 engine.  This engine has 50% more power (and 

cylinders) than the 2200.  I can only conclude the 2200 is a bit 

small for this airplane and the 3300 would be a better choice.



I know it is not politically correct these days to recommend the 

Zodiac XL, but it has many improvements over the HDS including a 

larger wing and longer fuselage.  The wing might be a big help to you 

with your high altitude starting point, and the longer fuselage 

should provide a better ride - especially in pitch stability.  I know 

there have been problems, but by the time you might finish one they 

will probably be figured out.



Good luck,



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 12:24 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.



I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no 

actual performance specifications.



Has anybody used this combination?  Does it still make the 140mph 

cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?



I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' 

and above, so it may be a little underpowered?



Thanks,

Justin

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

Hello Paul,

   

  I think is not incorrect to advise the 601 XL.   

   

  Last night I was thinking...  The XL has near 10 years (I Dont know when was first available),  all of this past years without any structural problem,  the prototype  is still flying daily as a demo plane,  lots of them flying all over the world,  in fact there was one in youtube performing loops, not adsvised of course.  

  The accident events are all in a (relative) short time , so I feel  (no guessing here .-)  that the problem, what ever is, can be traced and isolated and then we all can continue to build and fly it with the same confidence as before...  I know the scar  of the damage will be there all the life of the plane...

  Dont need to be answered though the  list please, just every one of us think about it for ourselfs, to not   beguin another useless discusion.  

  Maybe off line if you need to comment to me something

   

  Saludos

  Gary Gower.

  Building a 601 XL Kit.

  Fuselage almost ready, empenage ready,  will beguin with the wings soon.

  Do not archive.

  



Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz 



Hi Justin,



I have heard several builders proclaim the great performance the HDS 

gives with a Jabiru 3300 engine. This engine has 50% more power (and 

cylinders) than the 2200. I can only conclude the 2200 is a bit 

small for this airplane and the 3300 would be a better choice.



I know it is not politically correct these days to recommend the 

Zodiac XL, but it has many  improvements over the HDS including a 

larger wing and longer fuselage. The wing might be a big help to you 

with your high altitude starting point, and the longer fuselage 

should provide a better ride - especially in pitch stability. I know 

there have been problems, but by the time you might finish one they 

will probably be figured out.



Good luck,



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 12:24 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:

[quote]I am contemplating building a Zodiac HDS with a Jabiru 2200A (85hp) engine in.



I have seen a few references to this combination, but can find no 

actual performance specifications.



Has anybody used this combination? Does it still make the 140mph 

cruise claimed on the Rotax 912 engine? What is take-off performance like?



I do most of my flying at airfields with a density altitude of 6000' 

and above, so it may be a little         [quote][b]

heisan

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

So it seems no one has actually tried it... I was hoping it would work, because I have an opportunity to get a 2200 engine at a good price.  I know they work OK in an HD model, and I was hoping the lower drag of the HDS model would make it a more practical engine option.



Oh well - have to hunt for another good value engine.







Justin

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

It's not that they won't work in the HDS but since you said you were based at 6K feet you need the additional power.

 	  heisan wrote: 	
		  So it seems no one has actually tried it... I was hoping it would work, because I have an opportunity to get a 2200 engine at a good price.  I know they work OK in an HD model, and I was hoping the lower drag of the HDS model would make it a more practical engine option.



Oh well - have to hunt for another good value engine.







Justin

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

Justin,

I'd like to chime in again.  I failed to make the point that the HD has 

considerably more lift than the HDS.  Though the HDS has a higher speed,

the HDS climb cannot begin to keep up with the HD.  At your altitude, 

I'd think you'd be much better off going with the HD.  With the HDS 

you'd need

to either reduce payload or decrease your pitch to climb and this will 

negate the higher speed you see in the HDS.  If I lived at 6000 ft, I'd 

sell my

HDS wings and replace them with HD wings in a heartbeat.  I don't think 

the Jab 2200 would be a good engine for that altitude in any case.

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Gig Giacona wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 It's not that they won't work in the HDS but since you said you were based at 6K feet you need the additional power.

 heisan wrote:

> So it seems no one has actually tried it... I was hoping it would work, because I have an opportunity to get a 2200 engine at a good price.  I know they work OK in an HD model, and I was hoping the lower drag of the HDS model would make it a more practical engine option.

>

> Oh well - have to hunt for another good value engine.

>

> 

>

> Justin

>     

 --------

 W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

 601XL Under Construction

 See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184180#184180

heisan

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Zodiac HDS on a Jabiru 2200 engine?

 	  larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: 	
		  Justin,

I'd like to chime in again.  I failed to make the point that the HD has 

considerably more lift than the HDS.  Though the HDS has a higher speed,

the HDS climb cannot begin to keep up with the HD.  At your altitude, 

I'd think you'd be much better off going with the HD.  With the HDS 

you'd need

to either reduce payload or decrease your pitch to climb and this will 

negate the higher speed you see in the HDS.  If I lived at 6000 ft, I'd 

sell my

HDS wings and replace them with HD wings in a heartbeat.  I don't think 

the Jab 2200 would be a good engine for that altitude in any case.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com 	




Airfield altitude is 4500', but typical daytime temps put the DA at 6000'+ (hits 8000' on a summer day).



An 80hp Jabiru SP fully loaded at 550kg takes off in around 800m, climbs at 300-500fpm at 8000' DA. Cruise power will give you 90KIAS, or just over 105KTAS at 10500'.



So, the 80hp Jabiru motor does work fine up here. The only problem is that I don't know how the drag of the HDS compares to the Jabiru SP.



Anyway - I am looking around for a better engine - hopefully I will be able to find something at 100hp+ that I can afford  .



Thanks for all the feedback!



Justin

XIUYAN1

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 6

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:52 am Post subject: los-angeles-times

Не выйдет!

И тогда, человек способен

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