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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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<< There was a serious proposal from the RFC that Stonehenge (all of
20ft high) be removed as a danger to flying. Cheers, Pat >>
Hi, Pat -
Glad to hear that we are not the only country with aviation-ignorant
bureaucrats making the laws.
Here in the USA, an opposite sort of situation occurred, although
equally ridiculous.
In Biloxi, Mississippi, a 20-story casino/hotel went up almost
overnight, and in a spot that was DIRECTLY along the final approach path
to the main runway for Keesler Air Force Base, and within a half mile.
Local political greed being what it is, this was done without any
communication or coordination with the US Air Force, who would have
protested vehemently about the proximity of such a high-rise on short
final to the runway.
Following unsuccessful attempts to have the hotel moved, the Air Force
finally gave up. Now, the official published procedure for landing at
Keesler on that runway is to approach at an angle 20-degrees off runway
centerline, then align with runway heading when you cross over the
numbers. Although this would be easy in a Kolb (gotta keep this thread
Kolb-related) or any other general aviation aircraft, it is an
especially unsettling maneuver for the KC-135 tankers that primarily use
that base.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul, in
Cedar Crest, New Mexico
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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Dennisthis must be one of the VERY few times when heavy iron deviates from a normal final approach because of man-made obstructions. I suspect the Air Force's PR people had a hand in it.
(But wasn't anybody watching during the construction? There are "avigation rights" that even civilians can use to prevent the erection of hazards to flight at a nearby airport) I've seen this happen.
And I'm sure that even tho a Kolb, and cooperative pilot, would be willing to deviate and not fly directly over a prison, heavier stuff like King Airs & Aerostars, and BIGGER, would probably fly a straight-in approach.
Who else has had a drink at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego, where you can look DOWN on transport aircraft on final? Been going on for many years without fuss or danger.
do not archive
On Jul 1, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL wrote:
[quote] [quote][b]
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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I remember Clover Field (Santa Monica) final approach was below some of the rooftops.Kinda entertaining at the time as I was in a long procession.
ROC near me has a very tall radio tower (WHAM) quite near the airport.
It was built long enough ago that it sports only red blinking lights, grandfather privileges.
BB
do not archive
On 1, Jul 2008, at 8:27 PM, Russ Kinne wrote:
[quote] Dennisthis must be one of the VERY few times when heavy iron deviates from a normal final approach because of man-made obstructions. I suspect the Air Force's PR people had a hand in it.
(But wasn't anybody watching during the construction? There are "avigation rights" that even civilians can use to prevent the erection of hazards to flight at a nearby airport) I've seen this happen.
And I'm sure that even tho a Kolb, and cooperative pilot, would be willing to deviate and not fly directly over a prison, heavier stuff like King Airs & Aerostars, and BIGGER, would probably fly a straight-in approach.
Who else has had a drink at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego, where you can look DOWN on transport aircraft on final? Been going on for many years without fuss or danger.
do not archive
On Jul 1, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL wrote:
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution [/b] |
[b]
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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<< There was a serious proposal from the RFC that Stonehenge (all of
20ft high) be removed as a danger to flying. Cheers, Pat >>
Hi, Pat -
Glad to hear that we are not the only country with aviation-ignorant
bureaucrats making the laws.>>
Hi,
although bureaucrats are usually responsible for a SNAFU in this case it was
the RFC, the Royal Flying Corps who made the request. The RFC`s No 1
Training Wing was close by and I suppose there were tyros struggling around
the area at nought feet. Engines were notoriously unreliable and although
the pilots must have found hitting a tree or a hedge an acceptable risk,
smacking into a few tons of stone could make your eyes water. In general it
was a great place for flying training. Miles of open rolling downland. There
are still a few airfields in the area, and quite a lot of it is used for
military training including air attacks..
Cheers
Pat
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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How high is the ROC tower? I assumed that towers over 1000' HAD to have blinking strobes. Not so? Doesn't make much sense to exempt 'grandfathers'. Just as hard an impact.We had a student one night that was too scared to follow the 4 "C "s -- Climb, Communicate, Confess and Comply (I hope they still teach that) -- and hit a
1-1/4"alum. power cable with a Taylorcraft! Cut the cable, kept flying, and he landed at an airport. Blacked out 11,000 homes, not much damage to the T'craft. Props are amazingly strong.
I hate to think of a Kolb hitting even a guy-wire; but you could have a BRS that could hopefully save your life, even at a low altitude.
RK
do not archive
On Jul 1, 2008, at 11:00 PM, robert bean wrote:
| Quote: | I remember Clover Field (Santa Monica) final approach was below some of the rooftops.Kinda entertaining at the time as I was in a long procession.
ROC near me has a very tall radio tower (WHAM) quite near the airport.
It was built long enough ago that it sports only red blinking lights, grandfather privileges.
BB
do not archive
On 1, Jul 2008, at 8:27 PM, Russ Kinne wrote:
| Quote: | Dennisthis must be one of the VERY few times when heavy iron deviates from a normal final approach because of man-made obstructions. I suspect the Air Force's PR people had a hand in it.
(But wasn't anybody watching during the construction? There are "avigation rights" that even civilians can use to prevent the erection of hazards to flight at a nearby airport) I've seen this happen.
And I'm sure that even tho a Kolb, and cooperative pilot, would be willing to deviate and not fly directly over a prison, heavier stuff like King Airs & Aerostars, and BIGGER, would probably fly a straight-in approach.
Who else has had a drink at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego, where you can look DOWN on transport aircraft on final? Been going on for many years without fuss or danger.
do not archive
On Jul 1, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL wrote:
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:40 am Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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a drink at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego, where you can look DOWN on transport aircraft on final?>>
Hi Russ,
not the Coronado but last year we sat out on that spit of land the marines extended in the `40`s to protect San Diego Harbour and watched the planes disappearing among the buildings. Didn`t get the opportunity to get closer. Apart from flying in there from LA. It was the first stop on our tour which took us to Monument Valley
Can`t remember the name of the place. Old age is a terrible thing.
Cheers
Pat
[quote][b]
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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Old age may be terrible, but it's better than nothing! --like "Halitosis is better than no breath at all,"
I once saw a needlepoint that said OLD AGE AIN'T FOR SISSIES
Couldn't agree more.
Best, Russ
On Jul 3, 2008, at 7:38 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
| Quote: | a drink at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego, where you can look DOWN on transport aircraft on final?>>
Hi Russ,
not the Coronado but last year we sat out on that spit of land the marines extended in the `40`s to protect San Diego Harbour and watched the planes disappearing among the buildings. Didn`t get the opportunity to get closer. Apart from flying in there from LA. It was the first stop on our tour which took us to Monument Valley
Can`t remember the name of the place. Old age is a terrible thing.
Cheers
Pat
| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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Sorry, List, that was meant to be off-list. My apologiesdo not srchive
On Jul 3, 2008, at 8:59 AM, Russ Kinne wrote:
[quote] Old age may be terrible, but it's better than nothing! --like "Halitosis is better than no breath at all,"
I once saw a needlepoint that said OLD AGE AIN'T FOR SISSIES
Couldn't agree more.
Best, Russ
On Jul 3, 2008, at 7:38 AM, pj.ladd wrote:
| Quote: | a drink at the Coronado Hotel in San Diego, where you can look DOWN on transport aircraft on final?>>
Hi Russ,
not the Coronado but last year we sat out on that spit of land the marines extended in the `40`s to protect San Diego Harbour and watched the planes disappearing among the buildings. Didn`t get the opportunity to get closer. Apart from flying in there from LA. It was the first stop on our tour which took us to Monument Valley
Can`t remember the name of the place. Old age is a terrible thing.
Cheers
Pat
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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tkrolfe(at)toast.net
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: Unbelievable Aviation Laws |
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Russ Kinne wrote:
| Quote: | Sorry, List, that was meant to be off-list. My apologies
do not srchive
On Jul 3, 2008, at 8:59 AM, Russ Kinne wrote:
> Old age may be terrible, but it's better than nothing! --
> like "Halitosis is better than no breath at all,"
> I once saw a needlepoint that said OLD AGE AIN'T FOR SISSIES
> Couldn't agree more.
> Best, Russ
>
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Russ,
In the spirit of what John Hauck has asked in the past, how about
identifying yourself by what you fly and how much experience you have.
You have made over 70 postings to the Kolb List in the last two months
with all kinds of sage observations and advice, but not stating from
which you achieved this wisdom. I would be willing to learn!!
This from someone who ignores a reasonable request to not impose
themselves on the Homer Kolb family by staying overnight at our fly-in
there!
Terry - Firefly #95
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