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fstringham
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87
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 Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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Hi to All
Last week I asked a question about my Odyessey 680 battery not being able to keep a charge. I am using the Z13/8 with SD8 self excitation. I thought I had checked all the suspects and eliminated them one by one as the problem. So as a final step I figured the battery itself was bad. So I recharged and disconnected the ground from the firewall. Let it set and wouldn't ya know it. It maintained a charge. So back to the drawing board. In checking all the possible problems again I noted that that SD8 self excitation may be the problem. I have connected the ground back to the battery and the firewall. Will wait to see if it draws down again.
With that said who is using the SD8 with self excitation as pre Z25. And if so any problems.......
Being tech. challenged in this stuff I am not quite sure how to check the SD8 wiring to find the problem if in fact it is. If the battery discharges with the SD8 as configured then maybe it is the problem. I will recharge the battery and disconnect the SD8 from the battery contactor and see what happens. If the battery maintains charge with the SD8 removed I will know that the SD8 is the problem if not....................????????
Frank (at) 1L8...RV7A...last 945 details.........................................
[quote][b]
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N81JG(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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I have and SD8 alternater in my VariEze and found early on that the battery was slowly discharged through the small regulator hooked to the SD8. I put a switch in the circuit to turn on the alternater only after the engine is running. That fixed the problem.
John Greaves
VariEze N81JG
Redding, CA
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
[quote][b]
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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Frank,
Do you shut off both the Aux Alternator and E-Bus Alternate Feed switches after engine shut down? Leaving either one on could run down the battery. If you do shut those switches off, then check them with a voltmeter to be sure that they are opening up. 12VDC should be measured across the switch terminals when they are off (assuming an E-Bus load is turned on).
Loads on the Main Battery Bus could also run down the battery. You could pull all of the fuses on that bus to see if the problem goes away.
If you have a milliamp meter, disconnect a battery cable (negative is safer) and connect the milliamp meter in series between the battery and the battery cable. There should be zero current flowing with everything shut off. You need to be careful doing this. A large current could damage a milliamp meter or blow its fuse. If current is flowing, then loads could be disconnected one at a time until the current stops. That is the culprit.
Your previous post dated June 23 mentioned pulling the Aux Alt circuit breaker. That eliminates the SD8 circuit as a problem.
The Aux Alt Load Meter is another possibility. Disconnect the wires at the shunt to see if the problem goes away.
Chances are the problem is something connected to the Main Battery Bus. What is connected to that bus in your plane? It seems that you would notice a dome light or a Hobbs meter running when it shouldn't. Have you double checked the ignition switch wiring and also the master switch wiring?
How many days does it take to run the battery down?
Joe<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> [quote][b]
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chasb(at)satx.rr.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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My setup has a switch to activate/deactivate the SD-8. The switch is
normally off, and I have no problems with battery discharge.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
---------------------------------------------------------
Time: 12:19:39 PM PST US
From: Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem
Hi to All
Last week I asked a question about my Odyessey 680 battery not being
able t
o keep a charge. I am using the Z13/8 with SD8 self excitation. I
thought I
had checked all the suspects and eliminated them one by one as the
problem
. So as a final step I figured the battery itself was bad. So I
recharged a
nd disconnected the ground from the firewall. Let it set and wouldn't
ya kn
ow it. It maintained a charge. So back to the drawing board. In
checking al
l the possible problems again I noted that that SD8 self excitation
may be
the problem. I have connected the ground back to the battery and the
firewa
ll. Will wait to see if it draws down again.
With that said who is using the SD8 with self excitation as pre Z25.
And if
so any problems.......
Being tech. challenged in this stuff I am not quite sure how to check
the S
D8 wiring to find the problem if in fact it is. If the battery
discharges w
ith the SD8 as configured then maybe it is the problem. I will
recharge the
battery and disconnect the SD8 from the battery contactor and see
what hap
pens. If the battery maintains charge with the SD8 removed I will
know that
the SD8 is the problem if not....................????????
Frank (at) 1L8...RV7A...last 945
details......................................
...
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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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At 01:14 PM 6/27/2008 -0600, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hi to All
Last week I asked a question about my Odyessey 680 battery not being able
to keep a charge. I am using the Z13/8 with SD8 self excitation. I thought
I had checked all the suspects and eliminated them one by one as the
problem. So as a final step I figured the battery itself was bad. So I
recharged and disconnected the ground from the firewall. Let it set and
wouldn't ya know it. It maintained a charge. So back to the drawing board.
In checking all the possible problems again I noted that that SD8 self
excitation may be the problem. I have connected the ground back to the
battery and the firewall. Will wait to see if it draws down again.
With that said who is using the SD8 with self excitation as pre Z25. And
if so any problems.......
Being tech. challenged in this stuff I am not quite sure how to check the
SD8 wiring to find the problem if in fact it is. If the battery discharges
with the SD8 as configured then maybe it is the problem. I will recharge
the battery and disconnect the SD8 from the battery contactor and see what
happens. If the battery maintains charge with the SD8 removed I will know
that the SD8 is the problem if not....................????????
|
If you've followed the wiring suggested in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-8N.pdf
then the self-excitation circuitry . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/PM_Regulator/Self_Excitation_Experiment.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8_SelfExcite_A.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8_SelfExcite_B.jpg
. . . is disconnected when the airplane is parked.
If your SD-8 control relay is connected UPSTREAM
of the filter capacitor, then the resistor across the
capacitor WOULD produce a constant load on the battery.
Did you make a determination of magnitude on discharge
current? The resistor cited would load the battery to
the tune of 12 milliamperes. Assuming an 17 a.h.
battery, this load would take about 750 hours to
use about half the battery's energy.
Bob . . .
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fstringham
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87
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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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| Quote: | > Did you make a determination of magnitude on discharge
> current?
I hqve not done this yet and must confess I would need some info on how to
determine the magnitude of the discharge.
|
Put your multimeter in the DC current mode,
put the airplane into a "parked" configuration.
Disconnect either lead of the battery and put
the meter in series with the disconnected lead.
| Quote: |
In the past experiments I have done.....SD8 wired and connected the
battery discharges from 11.9 to under 7.5 as shown on the D-120 EMS. When
the SD8 disconnected there is very lttle if any discharge during a 48 hour
test run.
The resistor cited would load the battery to
> the tune of 12 milliamperes. Assuming an 17 a.h.
> battery, this load would take about 750 hours to
> use about half the battery's energy.
>
> Bob . . .
I do appreciate your help/advice.
The plane is in the final stages of manufacture (RV7A). All other panel
connections seem OK.
P-Mags not connected (they are in for software update). I have isolated
the main bus by pulling all the fuses for these components. Essential bus
has most of the avionics/instrument package wired to this bus. I have
checked each for energy draw on the battery and each has shown no desire
for energy when appropriatly turned off. I ahve checked the trickle charge
for the D-100 and it like wise is not the problem in my situation.
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| Quote: | One final bit of information. With the SD8 connected as per my wiring of
the Z25 (must admit I may be wrong in my wiring...but still think I am
correct.), when I disconnect the battery ground from the battery terminal
there is a click in the SD8 (s704-1) relay. When I touch the ground to the
post there is another click in the s704-1. So I changed the NO to the NC
and the NC to the NO on the s704-1. Still I get the same click as I remove
and replace the ground on the battery.
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AHA! When the SD-8 is turned OFF, the relay coil is open
circuit. What you describe says that the relay coil controlling
the SD-8 is energized when the SD-8 control switch is in the
OFF position. This suggests that the switch is wired upside-down.
With the switch in the OFF position (down), the center and the
upper switch terminals are connected. I suspect these are the
terminals you're using. Move the upper wire to the lower terminal
which will be connected only when the switch is in the ON position.
The wiring error as described puts 12 mA cited in the earlier post
PLUS about 100 mA for the relay coil itself. This total of 112 mA
would use up 1/2 of a 17 ah battery in about 3 days.
| Quote: |
All my electrical problems in the past have been my
miswiring/misunderstanding of the diagrams...or both....and once the sun
came up on my minds understanding and shed some clear light the problem
has been easily solved. I believe i have a problem in how i have wired up
Z25........once I see the problem I will say "DAH".....................
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Fix the switch wiring and I think your problem will go away.
Bob . . .
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fstringham
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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While investigating my SD8/Battery problem it allowed me the opportunity to double check my wiring scheme per Z25 and the location of the components and wire runs. D- to near F....especially once the fire wall to sub panel to skin is riveted on the RV7A.
In short it would have been real difficult to work on these electrical connections and components even with the access panel I put in this skin.
So with that said C back to the drawing board to rewire and relocate some of the components to make the install better.........There are some silver linings in this problem storm!!!!!
Bob C was also correct in my wiring of the AUX ALT switch to the SD-8. #3 switch terminal to CB instead of correctly going to #2. I also left off the PNL ground to the diode rectifier (20-50KuFd (at) 15 to 50V). Still not sure how I missed this one???????
By the way C since I have had the SD-8 disconnected from the battery contactor the battery has maintained it's charge.
Finally my plan is to relocate the S704-1/OVM-14/diode bridge/ with the various components/wires compactly nested to a standoff panel attached to the port aft upper firewall. Leave the voltage regulator and the diode rectifier on the original base that spans the horizontal angle on the fire wall to the forward side of the sub panel just above the rudder peddle bars. mid fuselage. I will reverse the direction of the diode rectifier so the wire attach points face forward. All in all this will make for a much cleaner install and easier to work on wiring scheme for Z25 in my aircraft. .......Stay tuned. If I rebuild one more thing it will be offical .......In building one plane I really built two of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the help and advice....especially Bob.
Frank (at) 1L8 ....RV7A....it may fly some day.........last 901 details!!!!!!!
> Date: Thu C 3 Jul 2008 10:46:59 -0500
| Quote: | To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
From: nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Subject: Re: RE: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls C III" <nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net>
At 01:14 PM 6/27/2008 -0600 C you wrote:
>Hi to All
>
>Last week I asked a question about my Odyessey 680 battery not being able
>to keep a charge. I am using the Z13/8 with SD8 self excitation. I thought
>I had checked all the suspects and eliminated them one by one as the
>problem. So as a final step I figured the battery itself was bad. So I
>recharged and disconnected the ground from the firewall. Let it set and
>wouldn't ya know it. It maintained a charge. So back to the drawing board.
>In checking all the possible problems again I noted that that SD8 self
>excitation may be the problem. I have connected the ground back to the
>battery and the firewall. Will wait to see if it draws down again.
>
>With that said who is using the SD8 with self excitation as pre Z25. And
>if so any problems.......
>
>Being tech. challenged in this stuff I am not quite sure how to check the
>SD8 wiring to find the problem if in fact it is. If the battery discharges
>with the SD8 as configured then maybe it is the problem. I will recharge
>the battery and disconnect the SD8 from the battery contactor and see what
>happens. If the battery maintains charge with the SD8 removed I will know
>that the SD8 is the problem if not....................????????
If you've followed the wiring suggested in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z13-8N.pdf
then the self-excitation circuitry . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Schematics/PM_Regulator/Self_Excitation_Experiment.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8_SelfExcite_A.jpg
http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8_SelfExcite_B.jpg
. . . is disconnected when the airplane is parked.
If your SD-8 control relay is connected UPSTREAM
of the filter capacitor C then the resistor across the
capacitor WOULD produce a constant load on the battery.
Did you make a determination of magnitude on discharge
current? The resistor cited would load the battery to
the tune of 12 milliamperes. Assuming an 17 a.h.
battery C this load would take about 750 hours to
use about half the battery's energy.
Bob . . .
<====================
|
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: AeroElectric-Battery/SD8 problem |
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At 01:21 PM 7/5/2008 -0600, you wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | Finally my plan is to relocate the S704-1/OVM-14/diode bridge/ with the
various components/wires compactly nested to a standoff panel attached to
the port aft upper firewall. Leave the voltage regulator and the diode
rectifier on the original base that spans the horizontal angle on the fire
wall to the forward side of the sub panel just above the rudder peddle
bars. mid fuselage. I will reverse the direction of the diode rectifier so
the wire attach points face forward. All in all this will make for a much
cleaner install and easier to work on wiring scheme for Z25 in my
aircraft. .......Stay tuned. If I rebuild one more thing it will be
offical .......In building one plane I really built two of
them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
Frank, that happens with EVERY project I've ever participated in.
In fact, by the time one device makes it to a customer airplane on the
production line, I've built as many as a dozen variants. The
brass-board and simulators is where we start. A chop-n-hack package
will go into the temperature chamber for thermal evaluations.
A flight-worthy package will go through engineering shake-n-bake
before another flight-worthy package gets bolted to the first
flight airplane. During flight tests, more modifications to improve
performance may be identified. The test articles used to qualify
the product (usually three more) are trash when we're finished
with them.
So if you can get your bird into the air with only a second
or third iteration on the design, you're waaaayyyy ahead of
me!
| Quote: |
Thanks for the help and advice....especially Bob.
|
No problem my friend. It's what we do.
Bob . . .
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