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aireupora(at)sbcglobal.ne
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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I just started chapter 29 for the tri gear. On page 29-2 Issue 3. It states to lay up two plies of "bid" at 45 degrees over the entire are up to the top level of the central tunnel.
I just did one ply and it was the most difficult lay up so far. There are no measuremnts given and the cloth folds onto its self while I tried to do the lay up.
It seems the there should be a better way of doing this lay-up. Has somebody come up with a good method? I looked at all the pictures, but they only show the finished product.
[quote][b]
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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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I did Mine by doing the cloth wet out on plastic sheet and then transfered it to the tubs, cutting and trimming to get a good fit, one face at a time, and then
the bottom last, with about a 50mm overlap I did the ply wood the same way and then carefully stuffed it all with plastic shopping bags to keep some pressure on the layups in the really tight corners the bags dont stick and can be easily removed after care, this gave me a nice finish that almost looks like its been vaccum bagged
[quote] --
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aireupora(at)sbcglobal.ne
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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Thanks, Graig, but I was writing about the very first lay up. The bid in the box. I did one by trying to lay it up with one big sheet of bid. Because the bid is a flat sheet it took some doing to get it in the form of the box. I had to cut the four corners. I then lay out the two sheet on a wax paper design. I then put this into the other baggage compartment. It quickly became a big mess. I know I have some air bubbles, but I could not work them out.
I'm thinking that I need to cut the bid into three pieces. One long piece from the tunnel to the fuselage side then the front piece and back piece.
craig bastin <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au> wrote:
[quote] I did Mine by doing the cloth wet out on plastic sheet and then transfered it to the tubs, cutting and trimming to get a good fit, one face at a time, and then
the bottom last, with about a 50mm overlap I did the ply wood the same way and then carefully stuffed it all with plastic shopping bags to keep some pressure on the layups in the really tight corners the bags dont stick and can be easily removed after care, this gave me a nice finish that almost looks like its been vaccum bagged
[quote] --
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Rowland_Carson
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Cheltenham, England
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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At 2008-07-13 06:45 -0700 Rick Stockton wrote:
| Quote: | I'm thinking that I need to cut the bid into three pieces
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Rick - as a monowheel builder I'm not familiar with this tri-gear
part of the build. However, alarm bells start to ring when I think
about cutting a re-inforcing item into pieces.
Graham Singleton or others with wider knowledge will correct me, but
I'm sure you need to consider the potential weakness introduced by
cutting the glass before layup. It may be possible to recover the
lost strength by edge overlaps of the glass plies, but I'm not
qualified to say where or how much.
regards
Rowland
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| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1030 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil(at)clara.net>
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hdwysong
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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| Quote: | I just did one ply and it was the most difficult lay up so far. There are no
measuremnts given and the cloth folds onto its self while I tried to do the lay
up.
It seems the there should be a better way of doing this lay-up. Has somebody
come up with a good method? I looked at all the pictures, but they only show
the finished product.
|
Hello Rick,
A trick I use on hard-to-reach spots (LongEZ /canard builder) is to
make "poor man's prepreg" with the BID. It might work well for you.
First, make a pattern for the layup using a piece of drop cloth
plastic. I use 2 mil plastic for my patterns but have seen folks use
4 mil. You can cram the plastic sheet into nooks/crannies and then
mark any creases with a Sharpie. Trim the excess with a pair of
scissors and you end up with a "paperdoll" pattern for your BID cloth.
Next, rough cut the BID cloth about 2" oversize relative to your
"paperdoll" pattern. Also, cut two more pieces of drop cloth plastic
a tad bit bigger than the BID.
Write "OUT" with your Sharpie marker one one of the big plastic sheets
and trace the "paperdoll" onto it. Place this piece face-down (i.e. -
with the "OUT" facing out) and lay your first BID ply on top at a 45
relative to the pattern. Wet out the first BID ply thoroughly and
follow it with the second BID ply. Once your plies are wet, put the
other sheet of plastic onto the top of the pile, making a sandwich of
wet BID between two sheets of drop cloth.
Use a squeegee (or Bondo spreader, thick postcard, tongue depressor,
rolling pin, etc.) to gently chase any air or excess epoxy to the
edges. Don't pull too much resin out but do your best to get rid of
any air bubbles. Using a hair dryer to gently warm the resin will get
it to flow better in cool weather.
Once you finish chasing air bubbles out, turn the whole sandwich over
so you can see your "OUT" plus the "paperdoll" pattern outline. Trim
the BID sandwich along the pattern lines with scissors, turn the
sandwich over again ("OUT" side down), and peel the top sheet of
plastic off of the sandwich.
Transfer the whole stack (BID, BID, "OUT" plastic) into the tunnel and
position/stipple/squeegee the layup in place. The plastic will help
keep the BID from folding back onto itself AND will keep you from
getting covered in epoxy. Once the BID is where you want it, peel the
"OUT" plastic off and stipple any stubborn spots. Add peel ply to the
edges if you want.
Good luck!
D
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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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D's approach HAS TO BE BETTER than doing it by the book.
Sorry to tell you this Rick, but if you think the layup you just did was
"difficult" you have no idea what lies ahead. Were Mother Theresa to
attempt these layups, even she would probably be tempted to utter a few
words she had never spoken before.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
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Gary.Leinberger(at)miller
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: Reenforcement of baggage bays |
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This is how I did it - after being quite frustrated at getting the
pieces to fit in the box. The idea is to have a "basket" of fiberglass
to spread the load - in particular the most load is in the rear corner
toward the center (looking downward at 4 o'clock, with 12 o'clock
pointing forward) since when landing the gear is pushed in this
direction (unless of course you land backwards.) So what I did was:
1. put in the uni - from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock - around the back
corners - it fits fine with no bubbles
2. put in two corners of bid from 3 o'clock to 6 o'clock in rear center
corner
3. run an 8 inch layer of bid on the bottom of the box cross-wise from 9
o'clock to 3 o'clock up the sides of the center tunnel and the sides of
the canoe (about 8 inches high).
4. Run an 8" wide piece of bid fore and aft centered over the gear leg
hole and up the sides about 8 inches
5. Run another 8" piece on the inside (3 o'clock) fore and aft and up
the sides - overlapping #4 a bit
6. Do #3 again.
7. Do #4 again.
8. Do #5 again.
9. Do #2. again.
10. Put in three layers of bid behind the box from the top and onto the
floor of the canoe.
This means the corner which takes the most stress will have four layers
of bid and two layers of uni inside the box, and three layers on the
back of the box. These layers will be tied to four layers, two running
fore and aft and 2 running crosswise -
I don't think this will break - the layers are interwoven, and the
reinforced and overlapping corners spread the load over the entire
corner and tie it to the rest of the box.
In addition I never make bad landings (  ) but if someone does I
still don't think it will break. I may pay a slight weight penalty for
this - but at best it is a few ounces versus the manual approach -
Gary Leinberger
A237
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