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601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
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numskull99(at)netzero.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

I've been lurking a while, and for me I can see many reasons why people get upset to hear of a 601 crash.  One thing we all share the same passion, we are loosing our fellow 601 drivers.  Another thing, some don't want to feel like they are investing allot of time and money in building a plane that would be more prone than other aircraft to having a failure.  Everyone has different ways of dealing with things, and that is what makes us different from everyone else. 

I also feel sometimes people reply to others before getting all the facts, or even thinking about it for a while before posting.  Crashes are sensitive area's, everyone please think about your responses before posting them.  Were not here to make enemies, at least I am not. 

As for me, I'm sorry to hear of the loss, and my heart goes out to the family and friends.  Enough said, I'm going back to the garage. 

Derek Lewis 

-- "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 Gig, 



in this case you are right, but on a private mail Mirko told me they were his friends, and he could not understand why he was given "the welcome reply", of couse  now his on the ZBAG list. 



Regarding Rick response, you can read mine there too. For me it is imposible to understand why many poeple get so upset when there is an accident. 



Thanks for your email. 

 2008/7/15 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com (wrgiacona(at)gmail.com)>:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com (wrgiacona(at)gmail.com)>



Alberto,



You shouldn't be surprised when a new person who says they have completed signs on to the list for the first time and and his question is about an accident.



I'm not saying Mirko is one of them but there are people on the Internet that are trying to hurt competitors.



That said Mirko received 3 perfectly responsible and polite replies from Rick, Jay and George. Not to mention Sabrina's post that proves that contrary to popular belief that teenagers do, in fact, have a clue.



--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192842#192842





	


-- 

Alberto Martin

www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - Spain



----------------------------------------------

Zodiac 601 XL Builder

Serial: 6-7011



Tail Kit: Finished

Wings: Not Started

Fuselage: Ordered

Engine: Jabiru 3300 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



====================================

">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================

www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	
  



____________________________________________________________ 

Beauty Advice Just Got a Makeover

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  [quote][b]

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:55 am Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

1.  I recommend you read the Zenair News  letter found at http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair-news-165.pdf   if you have not done so.

  

 2.  Why not fly your first flight.  The  XL flys like .. an airplane.  If you can fly a Cessna or Piper you can  surly fly your XL..

 Also, it is really neat flying the maiden  flight on an airplane you built!  Just keep it in its flight envelope and  be careful of speed build-up descending and a high sink rate  landing.

  

 Having a lot of fun with my XL.  Just about to  down it for my third Annual Condition Inspection.  (during flight test I  had it up to 195 mph IAS in slow steps in clam air.  I never have  experienced any control shaking or "buzz" indicating any possible onset of  flutter.  I have also been in "pretty good" turbulence during which my  headset would not remain on my head, but would be shaken off if I did not hold  it on, with no ill effects to the airplane. Kept the airplane at or below Va.  You do get some shudder in a stall though.

  

 Tony Graziano

  

 601XL/Jab 3300; Ser 6-5342/N493TG with wing lockers  and all options except "hinged" ailerons and wheel pants (have 6 inch  wheels and brakes - bigger foot print and brakes for landing on my rough, short,  over and through the power lines and trees, farm strip).

 398 enjoyable hours.

  

 ---------------------------------------------------

             Subject:              Re: 601XL Wing Failure        4/7/2008        From:              mirko (mirko(at)bytecorp.com.au ([email]mirko(at)bytecorp.com.au?subject=Re:%20601XL%20Wing%20Failure%204/7/2008&replyto=1215939517.m2f.192436(at)forums.matronics.com[/email]))        Date:              [b]Sun Jul 13 - 2:02        AM[/b] [quote] 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi there, I'm also a concern zodiac builder in Australia. My Zodiac 601 XL is built,

it took lots of money/time and ready for its first flight. But now hearing

all these new developments is making me a little nerves. The flatter(possible

ailerons not balanced) theory seems to stick with me. I agree, static tests

alone is not the whole answer. Has there been any more news regarding the Wing

Structure.



	
[b]

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

Mirko,



Have confidence in the design.  On the ailerons, the design is nothing new.  Just check the B-29 Stratobomber, it has the same design for its AIleron trim tabs.  Yep, the plane flew for many years under much harder stresses than what you wil put yours through.  The key is,  Did you build yours per the specs and did you build it right?  If so get in and start flying the BeJesus out of it, thats what you built it for, and have confidence in what you did.  Fly it like a Zenith 601 and not an Extra 300L, and you will be fine.



Juan



--

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

Sabrina, I second the sentiment that "you rock". Indeed!



As for the "pan fei fei" part, that's so cool. You can be the beautiful flying butterfly until the inevitable middle-age spread hits you (like the majority of the rest of us old farts), and it only takes a slight tonal change to maintain accuracy.



Looking forward to meeting you at OSH.



Rick Lindstrom

N42KP



P.S.  My own Zodiac made it back to Northern California just fine after its 16.9 hour round-trip to KAWO and back. Miracle of miracles, the wings didn't suddenly fold up and hit anybody on the head!

--

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

Welcome to the list Derek,  Just one little comment about you good post: 

  

All acidents are important and is important that all of us (pilots, builders and would be's) learn about them.  

  

But also I will tell you all, that some months ago I was checking on the NTSB (sp?) reports about most of the homebuilt accidents of each month...  They are lots  of fatal and no fatal accidents.  Is dificult to just go around.  like opening the news paper daily only in the police section...   

The thing I learned from this experience (lets always learn from everything we do) before I quit checking this list was,  That is more important to: 

Learn everything I can read or listen (hangar talk wirth the "oldies" -big logbook pilots-)  to become a better pilot. 

Learn to follow the plans and instructions of the Designer of the plane I am Building (or if is an RV Lodela:  Assembling   -sorry for the joke- and understand that I am NOT ready to be a "Designer in Chief" of MY project. 

Learn to understand my own personal limits (in weather, manuvers, "show offs", etc.) every time I fly, mostly once I have my own airplane...    

There are several more , but will never finish... 

  

Saludos 

Gary Gower 

Flying from Chapala, Mexico. 

701 912S  220 + hrs 

601XL kit  Jab 3300  building. 

Do not archive. 

--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Derek Lewis <numskull99(at)netzero.net> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Derek Lewis <numskull99(at)netzero.net>

Subject: Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:48 PM



  

I've been lurking a while, and for me I can see many reasons why people get upset to hear of a 601 crash.  One thing we all share the same passion, we are loosing our fellow 601 drivers.  Another thing, some don't want to feel like they are investing allot of time and money in building a plane that would be more prone than other aircraft to having a failure.  Everyone has different ways of dealing with things, and that is what makes us different from everyone else. 

I also feel sometimes people reply to others before getting all the facts, or even thinking about it for a while before posting.  Crashes are sensitive area's, everyone please think about your responses before posting them.  Were not here to make enemies, at least I am not. 

As for me, I'm sorry to hear of the loss, and my heart goes out to the family and friends.  Enough said, I'm going back to the garage. 

Derek Lewis 

-- "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 Gig, 



in this case you are right, but on a private mail Mirko told me they were his friends, and he could not understand why he was given "the welcome reply", of couse  now his on the ZBAG list. 



Regarding Rick response, you can read mine there too. For me it is imposible to understand why many poeple get so upset when there is an accident. 



Thanks for your email. 

 2008/7/15 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com (wrgiacona(at)gmail.com)>:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com (wrgiacona(at)gmail.com)>



Alberto,



You shouldn't be surprised when a new person who says they have completed signs on to the list for the first time and and his question is about an accident.



I'm not saying Mirko is one of them but there are people on the Internet that are trying to hurt competitors.



That said Mirko received 3 perfectly responsible and polite replies from Rick, Jay and George. Not to mention Sabrina's post that proves that contrary to popular belief that teenagers do, in fact, have a clue.



--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192842#192842





	


-- 

Alberto Martin

www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - Spain



----------------------------------------------

Zodiac 601 XL Builder

Serial: 6-7011



Tail Kit: Finished

Wings: Not Started

Fuselage: Ordered

Engine: Jabiru 3300 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



====================================

">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================

www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	




____________________________________________________________ 

Beauty Advice Just Got a Makeover

Read reviews about the beauty products you have always wanted to try

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


	


         [quote][b]

gnuse

Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

 	  tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote: 	
		  Sabrina, I second the sentiment that "you rock". Indeed!



As for the "pan fei fei" part, that's so cool. You can be the beautiful flying butterfly until the inevitable middle-age spread hits you (like the majority of the rest of us old farts), and it only takes a slight tonal change to maintain accuracy.



Looking forward to meeting you at OSH.



Rick Lindstrom

N42KP



P.S.  My own Zodiac made it back to Northern California just fine after its 16.9 hour round-trip to KAWO and back. Miracle of miracles, the wings didn't suddenly fold up and hit anybody on the head!

-- 	
 You are IMHO a truly insensitive person. Your P.S. comment was surely without forethought.

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

ate: Jul 22, 2008 7:50 PM



Well, gnuse, I'd have a lot more respect for your opinion (humble or otherwise),

if you'd sent me a private message saying you found my comment insensitive. 

However, since you've chosen to engage in name-calling on a public forum, I'll

also respond here.



First, I find it presumptious in the extreme that you can form and share an opinion

about someone you've never met, and never talked to, from a single comment that

contained a bit of dark sarcasm.



Second, as someone who straps on and flies a 601XL, the specter of some yet undiscovered

or confirmed airframe defect is a constant companion in the cockpit. But surrendering

the joy of flying the 601 to a still undefined fear is no way to live, either. So

my preflights are careful and thorough, and (so far) I've yet to find slack 

aileron cables, loose or missing spar bolts, signs of fretting, or any signs of 

control surface flutter or stress. I know for a fact the airframe was constructed

in accordance with Zenith's construction manual with Zenith's materials to Zenith's specifications.

So in the meantime, I'll keep flying the 601.



Third, I'm no stranger to losing friends and family members to accidents, disease,

or simple old age. I've lost 6 immediate family members in the last four years.

My kids are real tired of attending funerals. I've lost more friends in vehicle

accidents since I started flying in 1974 than I can recall. And yet, we all still

talk openly about the causes of each death, hoping to gain some insight to avoid

the same fate (in the case of the untimely accidents). Not much we can do about 

old age.



My comment was intended as real-life antidote to the fear that has compelled some

to sell their planes or abandon their projects, or parting them out and junking perfectly good

airframes. My comment was in no way intended to demean nor diminish the human tragedies

of any of the 601 crashes. Every airplane accident reminds each fellow aviator or

our own mortality, and the risks we accept every time we leave the earth. Every 

now and then, we ourselves, or someone we love, will lose that risk management bet.

But those accidents should not stop reasonable discourse on finding causes. And 

such discussions are inevitable anytime you have two or more people with a similar

dog in the fight (as we all do here). It simply comes with the territory.



And speaking of insensitivity, I've read some pretty incredible comments on 

this list. These comments have included chastising the Heintz family for (perceived)

inaction, accusing Chris of a faulty wing design, impugning the integrity of the

601 design itself, and generally spreading fear far and wide on very thin evidence.

Even the topic header of this very thread is insensitive, no doubt implanting the

idea to the casual lurker that the 601XL wing is prone to failure, especially on last

April 7th! These comments do very real damage to the livelihoods of those who directly

or indirectly earn their livings from Zenith Aircraft or related cottage industries.

The carnage from an aircraft accident doesn't simply stop at the crash site 

when uninformed speculation rears its ugly head.



BTW, my wife accuses me of being "overly sensitive" on a regular basis. She'll be thrilled that I've now been deemed "truly insensitive".



Here's my email address should you choose to take further discussion offline:

tigerized(at)gmail.com



Rick Lindstrom

N42KP / Corvair



--

jreekree

Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Dahlonega, GA

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

" 	  Quote: 	
		  Second, as someone who straps on and flies a 601XL, the specter of some yet undiscovered

or confirmed airframe defect is a constant companion in the cockpit. But surrendering

the joy of flying the 601 to a still undefined fear is no way to live, either. So

my preflights are careful and thorough, and (so far) I've yet to find slack

aileron cables, loose or missing spar bolts, signs of fretting, or any signs of

control surface flutter or stress. I know for a fact the airframe was constructed

in accordance with Zenith's construction manual with Zenith's materials to Zenith's specifications.

So in the meantime, I'll keep flying the 601. 	
"

My good friend and hangar mate Bob  had the exact same response to everyone, even on April 7th when we departed for Sun-N-Fun in his 601. 

 Still waiting on any information from the NTSB.



Let's all be safe on every flight.

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

maybe you fellows ought to think about getting married.

 

 

 --

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008

I'll pass. One spouse, for 25+ years, is enough.



But thanks for the suggestion!



rick



--

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