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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Question regarding the last post.
Does anyone know the beginning temperature of the Yellow Range of the CHT's on the 3300.
my engine is in a 601 XL and i would like to stay out of the Caution area.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Nice question, I´ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300 [quote][b]
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_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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info(at)usjabiru.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the 3300 Installation Manual says:
4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
4.1 RPM
- Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
- Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM – 3100 RPM
4.2 Engine Cooling
Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
Maximum Peak Temperature 200ºC (392°F)
Continuous Operation 180ºC (356°F)
That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The green would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area between 356 and 392.
Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier engines had a max of 347 F.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Iberplanes IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:15 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I´ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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imap8ntr(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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I studied the Jabiru Engine Instruction and Maintenance Manual carefully upon receiving my airplane. Jabiru Au has all the manuals on their site. On page 12 of the Jab Engine Instruction manual it says that the max continuous CHT temp is 356 F. This appears to me that this is the top of the "green" values. Max on climbout for 5 min max is 392F or redline. So it seems to me that yellow is from 356-392F. I try never to let my cht's operate continuously above the 340's hottest.
The latest revision of the POH for my Jabiru J-250 states that 356-392 F is in the yellow arc.
Hope this helps,
Ivan
[quote] ---
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imap8ntr(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Well said Pete. One of the reasons why I decided to purchase the Jabiru J-250 with the Jabiru engine as opposed a Rotax powered aircraft is because I was impressed so much by the Jabiru documentation. Almost all of my questions regarding the engine were answered by both the I/M manual and also the installation manual. Even though I have a factory buile S-LSA I still read the assembly and engine installation manuals because they had a wealth of additional information. I have owned Rotax engines for years (with dissappointment.) I was alsways trying to figure out what fluids I shoud use. I never could find the torque values when I did work on the Rotax which frustrated me to hell. I had a big smile on my face when I saw a page with torque values in the Jabiru Manuals.
My aviation motto has always been if it is not in writing, then it is heresay. Good documentation signifies a well thought out design and reproducibility. It also is the basis of future improvements and issued SB's which I also review.
Reading is a part of flying, fly safe
Ivan
Phoenix, AZ, USA
[quote] ---
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Hello Peter,
What can I say?
Thank you very much!!
2008/7/15 Jabiru USA <info(at)usjabiru.com (info(at)usjabiru.com)>:
| Quote: |
You guys need to read the manuals more carefully. Section 4 of the 3300 Installation Manual says:
4 OPERATING LIMITATIONS
4.1 RPM
- Continuous: 3300 RPM / Full Throttle
- Recommended Cruise: 2750 RPM – 3100 RPM
4.2 Engine Cooling
Maximum Cylinder Head Temperatures measured under exhaust spark plug.
Maximum Peak Temperature 200ºC (392°F)
Continuous Operation 180ºC (356°F)
That would indicate that the red line would be at 392 degrees F. The green would be below 356 degrees F and the yellow would be the area between 356 and 392.
Those numbers are for the new hydraulic lifter engines. Earlier engines had a max of 347 F.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Iberplanes IGL
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:15 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Nice question, I´ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300 0
1
|
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300 [quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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gdh(at)isp.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
[quote] ---
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: CHT's |
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Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday?
Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick <gdh(at)isp.com>:
[quote] Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:00 am Post subject: CHT's |
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Hi Pete,
Maybe you know this.. Is the higher allowable CHT on the new engines because
of better materials, or because the construction has changed such that the
reading under the spark plug has changed while the actual temperature is
still the same?
Just wondering..
Rob
---
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info(at)usjabiru.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: CHT's |
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The new heads are better engineered and will handle more heat. The JAR22H
engine testing proved it very well - 50 hours at 400 F at full power. No
problems.
Pete
--
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gdh(at)isp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: CHT's |
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Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
[quote] ---
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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Peter H
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
[quote]
---
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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gdh(at)isp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach.
Thanks,
Dale
[quote] ---
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Peter H
Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Ade
Also check for a tight motor when hand propping hot.
Peter
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: Monday, 28 July 2008 1:17 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach.
Thanks,
Dale
[quote]
---
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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jeromedelamare(at)free.fr
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: CHT's |
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I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low section and low conductivity of the iron) !
You don’t need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the brushes of the starter :
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5
Jérôme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach.
Thanks,
Dale
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris (peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL (iberplanes(at)gmail.com)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick <gdh(at)isp.com (gdh(at)isp.com)>:
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL (iberplanes(at)gmail.com)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: CHT's
Nice question, I´ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
| Quote: | | href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
01234
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
56789href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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gdh(at)isp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: CHT's |
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Jerome,
How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter?
Thanks,
Dale
[quote] ---
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jeromedelamare(at)free.fr
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: CHT's |
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The brushes are located between the two bolts head. So, when you ground the engine like that : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 (the ground on this picture is the black wire) you can avoid voltage drop in the bolts of the starter.
Jérôme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 16:05
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: CHT's
Jerome,
How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter?
Thanks,
Dale
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Jérôme Delamare (jeromedelamare(at)free.fr)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM
Subject: RE: CHT's
I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low section and low conductivity of the iron) !
You don’t need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the brushes of the starter :
http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5
Jérôme
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: CHT's
Peter,
Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach.
Thanks,
Dale
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Harris (peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: CHT's
Ale,
The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm.
The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark.
It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency.
We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement.
Peter
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick
Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: CHT's
Hello Alberto,
Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor.
Regards,
Dale
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL (iberplanes(at)gmail.com)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: CHT's
Hello Dale,
Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday?
Let me know.
2008/7/16 D.Hetrick <gdh(at)isp.com (gdh(at)isp.com)>:
Hello Alberto,
My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday.
Thank you,
Dale Hetrick
Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Iberplanes IGL (iberplanes(at)gmail.com)
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: CHT's
Nice question, I´ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures.
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
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01234
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
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gdh(at)isp.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: CHT's |
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Jerome,
From the photo it appears that you have a completely different starter motor than mine. The one I have is all black and, I'm told, that it is manufactured by Bosch. I believe the new ones are Nippon -Denso.
Regards,
Dale
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