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Strategies for car gas at the airport

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.



How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

tank filler necks.



-- Craig

jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

I have a 23 gallon tank in my Sky Ranger, and two six gallon plastic gas cans, dedicated for use only with mogas for the airplane does the job.  In actual practice you rarely need more than 10 or 12 gallons to bring the tank up to a 3 or 4 hour flight duration.  Rarely, you may have to make a second trip to the gas station to top up right to the top.  Don't use av gas unless you have to, it makes a huge mess of your plugs, oil, gearbox, oil sump, though the engine will run fine!  Filling the tank is easy, by hefting the 6 gallon tank up onto the empennage just behind the wing, and using a siphon.  You can get a self starting siphon with a brass ball end which you shake to get started ( a company in Colorado I think).  It is a 3/4 ID hose and 6 gallons moves through it in short order.  

 

Jack



On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>

 

 The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

 airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

 deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

 ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

 of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

 will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

 hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

 whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.

 

 How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

 the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

 tank filler necks.

 

 -- Craig

 

 

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Jack Kuehn

5565 Brady Ln

Lolo, MT USA 59847



(406)273-6801

(406)546-1086 cell

jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com (jack.kuehn(at)gmail.com)

(406)273-2563 fax

 http://mountaintime.myrf.net/imglib/index.htm 

  [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Hi Craig,



I have a 30 gal. drum rated for fuel with a 12 Volt pump on rollers. I bring the fuel to the airport in 5 gal. cans then keep it in the drum. Works well and there isn't any mess.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Craig,



I sent you a picasa picture of the fueler I use. Also for a couple hundred bucks at tractor supply or harbor freight you can buy one of those small trailers they have to haul your fuel.

 



Ollie  Central FL.



On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>

 

 The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

 airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

 deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

 ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

 of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

 will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

 hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

 whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.

 

 How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

 the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

 tank filler necks.

 

 -- Craig

 

 

 

 

 

 [b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

I fuel my plane, a Kitfox, from 2.5 gal plastic jerry cans.  2 1/2 gal

containers are easy to lift to the wing.  

I do a few things for safety.  I remove all the tanks from the car, an

Imprezza hatchback, before filling them.  I check all the caps before

loading the full cans into the car.  When I get to the pond (floats... what

else I'm in Newfoundland) I prepare the plane for flight before removing the

gas from the car.  There are two reasons for doing that.  One is the sun

won't heat up the gas while I'm getting the plane ready.  The second reason

is a lot of people have no common sense when it comes to smoking around gas.

Some village idiot may try to sue me for putting him in a dangerous

situation.  Just before I launch the plane I fuel it up reducing the

possibility of fuel spillage into the pond.



One other thing about the 2.5 gal Jerry cans is I can get five of them into

one of my floats.  The other float can take any trouting gear and of course

the catch of the day...  one of these days I may get up to 950 lb MTOW.



If you really don't like putting gas in your SUV then try one of those small

motorcycle trailers.  Just remember to keep your speed below warp.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

nicksav(at)windstream.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

One word of  caution-- I have heard that  gasoline of any octane rating does to Lexan -- be real careful or you will  be replaceing it.  Gas cans up high and a little wind can have disastrous  effects.  I have not seen it first hand but have heard a few horror  stories.

 [quote]   ---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

1) buy a clunker pickup and a 30 gallon transfer tank from the farm 

supply place.

2) get the sealed jerry cans to carry inside your suv

3) buy a low cost trailer with the farm store transfer tank and tow 

it to your plane.

This is almost as good as a pickup, just more awkward,  but a lot less cost.

For any of the above just get a 12v pump so you can transfer the gas 

with a hose and regular nozzle.  The farm store will have a package 

deal with all the necessary stuff except for a battery.

Hand pumps are available but its hard to monitor filling unless you 

have a buddy to work the crank.

Proper grounding like the FBO does is necessary for any method. 

Tricky to implement with hand held jerry cans.

As you can guess the pickup method is highly preferred.

I hope you can drive to the plane?

Paul

==========

At 11:51 AM 7/16/2008, Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<craig(at)craigandjean.com>



The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.



How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

tank filler necks.



-- Craig

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Thanks! No problems with shelf-life? How fast do you turn it over?



-- Craig



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Thanks, I’ll test 100LL and auto gas on  a scrap of Lexan.  

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Savener

 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:57 PM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport  

One word of  caution-- I have heard that gasoline of any octane rating does to Lexan -- be real careful or you will be replaceing it.  Gas cans up high and a little wind can have disastrous effects.  I have not seen it first hand but have heard a few horror stories.  

   	  Quote: 	

----- Original Message -----   

From: Ollie Washburn (ollie6a(at)embarqmail.com)   

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)   

Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:49 PM  

Subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport  

Craig,     

I sent you a picasa picture of the fueler I use. Also for a couple hundred bucks at tractor supply or harbor freight you can buy one of those small trailers they have to haul your fuel.  

Ollie  Central FL.    

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> wrote:  

--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>

 The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

 airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

 deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

 ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

 of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

 will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

 hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

 whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.

 How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

 the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

 tank filler necks.

 -- Craig

   	  Quote: 	
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       [quote][b]

Gtblu

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

I have witnessed the Lexan/fuel (avgas) mix first hand. The effect was instant, with the windscreen cracking and weakening. it was a tiny amount, hot day, bingo! It could be duct taped to take it home, but was a nervous trip.

I don't really know how to avoid it. May be a sheet of plastic to cover the winscreeen? I think vigilance is the key, but it was a tiny amount that caused the problem. A few drips can stain Lexan permanently.

regards

Geoff Bell

jpollard

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 2

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

At 01:51 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

tank filler necks.



-- Craig


	




Here is a method I have been thinking about for getting fuel from your

autos tank to the aircraft.

There is a schreder valve on the fuel rail on a lot of vehicles where

you can drain the fuel tank from if you can get the fuel pump running.



The fuel pump is controlled by a relay sometimes in the box of

electrical stuff on the front fender.

I used this method on my mothers car last winter when she filled it

up on the farm from the diesel tank instead of the gas tank.



I took the cap of the schreder valve and the valve stem out.



Then located the fuel pump relay by feeling which one was clicking

when the fuel pump came on when the key was turned on.



I jammed a piece of tight fitting hose over the valve and ran it into

5 gallon pails.



There is a wiring diagram on the little Bosch relays that shows

which terminal goes to the fuel pump and a jumper was ran to this

terminal from a 12 v terminal post that was right near by in the box.



It was not timed but it was less than 15 minutes to get it all

pumped out (15 - 20) gallons.

With the right kind of hose and proper hose end and maybe a

wired in switch to start the pump up with the engine off,

this may be an option.



J Pollard

tooch(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

I forgot where I saw it but there is a kit out there that hooks to your fuel

system with it's own pump and the sales pitch is, never bring a can to the

gas station again. Fill you lawn mower from your car. I thought about buying

it but I don't use high octane in my cars and that off course is what my

912uls uses.




<jpollard(at)ciaccess.com>



At 01:51 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most

car
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  tank filler necks.



-- Craig


	




Here is a method I have been thinking about for getting fuel from your

autos tank to the aircraft.

There is a schreder valve on the fuel rail on a lot of vehicles where

you can drain the fuel tank from if you can get the fuel pump running.



The fuel pump is controlled by a relay sometimes in the box of

electrical stuff on the front fender.

I used this method on my mothers car last winter when she filled it

up on the farm from the diesel tank instead of the gas tank.



I took the cap of the schreder valve and the valve stem out.



Then located the fuel pump relay by feeling which one was clicking

when the fuel pump came on when the key was turned on.



I jammed a piece of tight fitting hose over the valve and ran it into

5 gallon pails.



There is a wiring diagram on the little Bosch relays that shows

which terminal goes to the fuel pump and a jumper was ran to this

terminal from a 12 v terminal post that was right near by in the box.



It was not timed but it was less than 15 minutes to get it all

pumped out (15 - 20) gallons.

With the right kind of hose and proper hose end and maybe a

wired in switch to start the pump up with the engine off,

this may be an option.



J Pollard

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