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Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass
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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

In the spirit of not allowing this list to become a pissing contest,  

I'll simply state that if I was afraid to land I'd be smart enough to  

not take off in the first place. To defend my personal position of  

"going places" ...that is, outside of the pattern, I fly long hours  

to get to another....NEW....place to land. I fly distances because  

I've run out of local grass, AND paved runways at which to land,  

always seeking a new environment, a new challenge.



I wouldn't dare call you a pattern boy, or a spelling champion for  

that matter...(just havin' some fun) : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/545 hrs

do not archive



On Jul 6, 2008, at 9:24 PM, kitfoxmike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <customtrans(at)qwest.net>



 Say what you want,

 I fly away from the pattern all the time.  I went to Arlington last  

 year, the kitfox flyin, down to richland, to aurora oregon.  Just  

 to name a few.  When I fly long distances I hit every runway along  

 the way, I think it's cool to try out new patterns.  When I went to  

 arlington I went into wenatchee for breakfast then on to  

 arlington.  On the way home i went into cle elum, now that airport  

 was like a ghost town with winds in the 30's mph.  I had to dodge  

 holes in the asphalt on role out.  Don't you dare call me a pattern  

 boy, no way.  But when the weather is bad and most of you stay on  

 the couch and watch tv, well I'm up there in the pattern, why  

 because there is a big hole and the only open spot is right over  

 the airport.  I spend 30 minutes in pattern and do 30 touch and  

 go's big deal, the rest of the flight I'm running through the  

 mountain and a few trees at about 20ft off.  I'm putting an RV  

 together because I'm a working boy and can't spend a week going  

 down to californ!

  ia.  I only have a weekend.



 since you like to make fun, here's mine.  I think you boys that fly  

 a high number of hours and low amount of landings are afraid to  

 land.  I think you pray before each landing.  How's that.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191511#191511

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Sbennett3(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

Custom trans, I dont know your name as you dont  sign your posts. I never made fun, just pointed out that I travel. I'm not a  high hours pilot either. I have 190 hrs on my fox. I'm glad you're enjoying  yours. I'm envious about your rv build. Good luck in your future and fly like  you like not how others want. Steve Bennett



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

  [quote][b]

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

kitfoxmike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Say what you want,

 I fly away from the pattern all the time.  I went to Arlington last year, the kitfox flyin, down to richland, to aurora oregon.  Just to name a few.  When I fly long distances I hit every runway along the way, I think it's cool to try out new patterns.  When I went to arlington I went into wenatchee for breakfast then on to arlington.  On the way home i went into cle elum, now that airport was like a ghost town with winds in the 30's mph.  I had to dodge holes in the asphalt on role out.  Don't you dare call me a pattern boy, no way.  But when the weather is bad and most of you stay on the couch and watch tv, well I'm up there in the pattern, why because there is a big hole and the only open spot is right over the airport.  I spend 30 minutes in pattern and do 30 touch and go's big deal, the rest of the flight I'm running through the mountain and a few trees at about 20ft off.  I'm putting an RV together because I'm a working boy and can't spend a week going down to californ!

  ia.  I only have a weekend.



 since you like to make fun, here's mine.  I think you boys that fly a high number of hours and low amount of landings are afraid to land.  I think you pray before each landing.  How's that.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191511#191511



 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 



   

WOW come on guys..this is going a little far???Right???we are not little 
	


boys here..I do not think that this list is for this Kid school 

stuff..We all love to fly and that is why we are here..and that is why 

we like to fly our Kitfoxs..we can flyn them any way we want 2.becouse 

we can,fly the way we want..NO fights here please...PLease Kiss and make 

up...STEVE SHINABERY  N554KF   KF2   582

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

groan...



---

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

[quote="Sbennett3(at)AOL.COM"]Custom trans, I dont know your name as you dont  sign your posts. I never made fun, just pointed out that I travel. I'm not a  high hours pilot either. I have 190 hrs on my fox. I'm glad you're enjoying  yours. I'm envious about your rv build. Good luck in your future and fly like  you like not how others want. Steve Bennett



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




sounds like I don't belong here

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

OK everybody. This thread has gotten lost so I'm killing it. Please refrain from replying further.



 Thanks,



 

 Guy Buchanan - Kitfox List Moderator

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV/1200 w/ 582 C-box & Warp 3 blade

 100% and flying thanks mostly to Bob Ducar     [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Jeffrey Dill

Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Pleasant view, TN

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

Guy, I want to honor your move to kill this thread, but it is the one I read thoroughly the night before I wrecked my model 2. I thought the idea of marking the windshield with aimpoint and horizon lines was excellent, but got too short on time to do it before my flight. I am pretty surprised that I have to be the one to put it out there, but it happened. I am a 14000+ hr pilot, but I lost it. I have only 25 hrs now in a Kitfox plus 4 tailwheel endorsement in a cub. That is all my tailwheel time. Maybe I was too afraid of the groundloop boggie-man and overcontriolled, maybe not afraid enough and allowed the tail to come up. I don't know. The thing started to veer on me on asphalt, an experience I have had before and escaped from with a go-around.  But this time the narrow runway ran out on me and I left the hard surface; the grass bogged down my acceleration and I didn't clear a taxi sign when I thought I had plenty of room.  Have you heard of a 44709? That is next and I don't intend to do it in a Kitfox. Mine could be fixed, or totaled; the wife votes for totaled. I will be caught up in the consequences of this for some time. Wish me luck.

_________________
Jeff Dill
Model 2

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

I vote for fixing it !!!  If you let your plane go you will always look back and regret that decision...   If you rebuild it, your wife may be bent out of shape for a while, but it will pass     



It takes a lot of guts to admit something like this on a public list, but I am sure everyone respects you for being being honest and giving good information that can help your fellow pilots avoid the same fate.  This is a very relevant and important thread.  It was obviously a mistake for the moderator to want to kill this thread.  This information is just to important to suppress just because of a few bad posts in the thread.  To let a couple pointless posts stop pilots from getting the safety related information they need is not good moderation.  I would much rather get good information, with some garbage mixed in, than see an oversensitive moderator kill threads and get no information at all.  



In the end, the lesson here is very clear.  Despite all the super, manly pilot talk by some, the reality is that landing on asphalt in a tailwheel airplane is much harder than landing on grass.  Use caution...



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

Jeffrey,

Thanks for sharing.  This is a good wake-up reminder for me.  I am a low time pilot with 300 hours in a Cherokee.  I have about 50 hours in my Kitfox now and was just thinking after my last flight that I am getting pretty good at landing.



I think there is some truth about worrying about the  tailwheel boogy man too much too.  A little mishap along with stories about how dangerous and difficult the tail wheel is...all from people who had never flown one...had me so worried that it took me six years after I finished building my Kitfox to bite the bullet, get the training and start flying it.  Actually my wife pushed me to do it one day when she said "Fly it or sell it".



I still have the landing sight line on my windshield but find I am not concentrating on it so much now.



For what its worth, my opinion on tail wheel experience is its not the number hours that counts...its the number of landings that hones your skill.



I had to google the "44709" to find out what it is.  I'm sure you will have no trouble with that.  Good luck!

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

The moderator killed it, and rightly so, because it turned into a  

verbal sparring match, (myself included) between a few people who  

probably should have known better. Besides, I don't think any of us  

"pugilists" remembered to at least add the "do not archive" when it  

got beyond the intended purpose, which was to enlighten folks about  

landing on a hard surface.



Sorry to hear about your rough landing, Jeff, and I hope you rebuild.  

What all was damaged?....maybe there are some parts to be had here....



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs





On Jul 18, 2008, at 12:09 AM, JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   This was a very good thread, I cant imagine why the moderator would  

 want to suppress good safety related information here.



 Mike



 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast  

 as you could have !!!



 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193543#193543

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Jeffrey Dill

Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Pleasant view, TN

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

Thanks for your kind words folks. In respect for Guy's ability to shut down a thread when he sees fit, I am going to start another. I see both sides of that issue. Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground.

_________________
Jeff Dill
Model 2

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: Kitfox on hard surface compared to grass

At 07:59 PM 7/17/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Mine could be fixed, or totaled; the wife votes for totaled. I will 

be caught up in the consequences of this for some time. Wish me luck.


	


Jeff,

         I'm sorry to hear about your adventure. I've been out of 

town for a while but I see the good and able list members already 

took care of changing the thread subject. I hope you'll get it back 

into the air - tube and rag aircraft are very repairable. I saw your 

later post and think your A&P is being too conservative. All he has 

to do is make sure the thing's symmetric left/right and it will be 

fine. Find another and get it fixed.

Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

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